Acquired
03:06:56 · Ben Gilbert, David Rosenthal
[03:06:56] S0: Without being too on the nose, like, I'd say they both pursue their artistic passions, and a secondary benefit to the work that they make is that it reinforces the relevance of Seinfeld. And, like, you know, Curb reinforces Seinfeld, especially when you put the reunion of Seinfeld on Curb. And Jerry doing his stand up, He would be doing stand up no matter what, but it definitely reminds people that the show Seinfeld exists. [03:07:24] S1: Well, I think all of these things are true. I think Larry and Jerry made the decisions to do what they did after the show, the activities and projects they pursued out of personal and artistic reasons. And kind of you look at this, like, through the lens of our Disney flywheel from our Disney episodes, the way you maximize the value of IP in a flywheel is you generate lots of other IP around it, but you don't disrupt the core thing. And that's exactly what Jerry and Larry do. They never disrupt the sanctity of what Seinfeld is. But Jerry's stand up, comedians in cars getting coffee, the stand up specials, again, even curb, these things never compete with Seinfeld. They only focus attention back on it. Yep. And look like they're probably making at least as much money from the increased attention on Seinfeld as they are directly from any of those things. Even Curb. I mean, Curb was great, but it was on HBO, so it didn't make a lot of money. Like, Larry David made a fraction out of twenty five years of doing Curb as he did from seven years doing Seinfeld.
03:07:24 · David Rosenthal, Ben Gilbert
[03:07:24] S1: Well, I think all of these things are true. I think Larry and Jerry made the decisions to do what they did after the show, the activities and projects they pursued out of personal and artistic reasons. And kind of you look at this, like, through the lens of our Disney flywheel from our Disney episodes, the way you maximize the value of IP in a flywheel is you generate lots of other IP around it, but you don't disrupt the core thing. And that's exactly what Jerry and Larry do. They never disrupt the sanctity of what Seinfeld is. But Jerry's stand up, comedians in cars getting coffee, the stand up specials, again, even curb, these things never compete with Seinfeld. They only focus attention back on it. Yep. And look like they're probably making at least as much money from the increased attention on Seinfeld as they are directly from any of those things. Even Curb. I mean, Curb was great, but it was on HBO, so it didn't make a lot of money. Like, Larry David made a fraction out of twenty five years of doing Curb as he did from seven years doing Seinfeld. [03:08:35] S0: Yeah. You know, we can't do this whole episode without bringing up the raging racist remarks that Michael Richards Yep. Had in his stand up. [03:08:44] S1: In 2006. Let's just scope [03:08:46] S0: this to the business because that's what this podcast is about. Aside from just how absolutely awful the the comments were, it's a problem for the business. Totally. [03:08:57] S1: It puts the business model at risk.
03:08:57 · David Rosenthal, Ben Gilbert
[03:08:57] S1: It puts the business model at risk. [03:08:58] S0: Right. If you are a Seinfeld cap table member like Castle Rock and these folks, the goal is to keep this asset going, to keep people loving it. And if that could have spiraled into a boycott the show Seinfeld thing, and I think everyone had to toe a very tight tightrope between, one, their feelings about the issue, two, their feelings about Michael as a friend of theirs, three, making sure to appropriately condemn condemnable words, but four, make sure that Seinfeld is able to, like, be preserved as an asset as they go through that PR crisis. [03:09:37] S1: Even if it just creates some subconscious Ick. Negative associations and for viewers, it's really, really sensitive, the value to perception here. [03:09:48] S0: So it was interesting kinda going back and watching a lot of the commentary on that. Jerry offers up things like, well, you know, a comedian on stage is not actually that person. It's sort of a person playing a a role. But, like, if you look at it from a pure comms and and, like, business incentives perspective, you need to condemn the act enough to make people go, okay. Good. Jerry doesn't have his hand in the sand here. He realizes how awful that was, but not condemn it so much to make people go, well, then I don't like Kramer either. And I don't wanna watch Seinfeld because of that. So it's kind of interesting, the art of stewarding a business asset. It involves a lot of that, like, tightrope walking.
03:09:48 · Ben Gilbert, David Rosenthal
[03:09:48] S0: So it was interesting kinda going back and watching a lot of the commentary on that. Jerry offers up things like, well, you know, a comedian on stage is not actually that person. It's sort of a person playing a a role. But, like, if you look at it from a pure comms and and, like, business incentives perspective, you need to condemn the act enough to make people go, okay. Good. Jerry doesn't have his hand in the sand here. He realizes how awful that was, but not condemn it so much to make people go, well, then I don't like Kramer either. And I don't wanna watch Seinfeld because of that. So it's kind of interesting, the art of stewarding a business asset. It involves a lot of that, like, tightrope walking. [03:10:31] S1: Yeah. A business asset that is... Where the value is so tied to the present day cultural relevance. Yes. So... Yeah. Then there's the Internet that's associated with all this too. I mean, it's kind of amazing. Again, back to Seinfeld hitting its stride right as the Internet was going mainstream, the meme ability, the catchphrases, the GIFs on the Internet. GIFs. [03:10:57] S0: GIFs. GIFs. GIFs. [03:10:58] S1: GIFs. Ugh. [03:11:01] S0: It's like hearing a souring moment right there. Like an untuned piano. [03:11:06] S1: I'm sorry. I apologize. The GIFs on the Internet, you know, like the modern Seinfeld Twitter account becoming one of the early big mainstream Twitter accounts where the whole premise is, you know, Seinfeld episodes in the modern day. That's all part of it too. Yep. Which brings us to streaming.
03:11:06 · David Rosenthal, Ben Gilbert
[03:11:06] S1: I'm sorry. I apologize. The GIFs on the Internet, you know, like the modern Seinfeld Twitter account becoming one of the early big mainstream Twitter accounts where the whole premise is, you know, Seinfeld episodes in the modern day. That's all part of it too. Yep. Which brings us to streaming. [03:11:23] S0: Yes. So syndication is still a thing on broadcast networks and cable stations, but that's not where the big money is anymore. It's these streaming deals that really get started in 2015 with the Hulu deal. So that was a $150,000,000 five year deal. [03:11:41] S1: Yep. It would, go up from there. So two years later in 2017, Jerry signs a personal deal with Netflix to bring comedians in cars getting coffee onto Netflix. It was on Crackle. Right? It was like a web series? It was on Crackle. Do you do you know what Crackle was? I have no idea what Crackle is. Crackle was Sony's early in house web streaming network. Got it. That's why it was on Crackle, and then that went away. So that sets the stage for this Jerry Netflix deal to bring Comedians in Cars over and to do two new stand up specials for for Netflix. Because when the first renewal cycle comes around for Seinfeld streaming rates in 2019, Netflix does a landmark deal with Sony worth... Reported well over $500,000,000 for five years of worldwide exclusive streaming rights to Seinfeld. That is a huge amount of money.
03:12:44 · Ben Gilbert, David Rosenthal
[03:12:44] S0: And this is a result of Netflix had Friends and The Office, which I think became their top viewed shows, and they were losing them. Because Friends... It's so funny. All three of these shows were on NBC. Friends was produced just like Seinfeld in the Finson era, and it was produced by Warner Brothers, which is exactly where the rights are held for Seinfeld. So you might say Friends and Seinfeld are the same. But in the case of Friends, Warner Brothers also controls the distribution rights. Those were not ever owned by Sony. So HBO Max is about to become a thing. Warner Brothers is like, nope. Netflix, we'll take Friends back. We're gonna use that on our streaming service because we control the distribution rights. And The Office was produced after all the Finsin stuff, so NBC actually owned it directly. And they go, nope, Netflix. We'll take that back. We're gonna put that on what's about to come out and be called Peacock. So Netflix loses their top rerun sitcom shows. They need Seinfeld real bad. And Sony owns the distribution rights and is not coming out with a streaming service. So they're kinda the only ones to go to and say, give me a 180 episodes of people loving their nineties and 2,000 sitcoms. [03:14:00] S1: Yep. So it all goes down that same year in 2019. Friends with HBO Max and The Office with Peacock, they have to announce, like, a a dollar value for the deals that they do because they have to calculate all the guild residuals to come out of it.