Seinfeld

01:56:33 · Ben Gilbert, David RosenthalPlay from here

[01:56:33] S0: And it cemented Seinfeld as a water cooler conversation show. Yes. This was something you were gonna share with your friends. [01:56:39] S1: You sure as hell were gonna talk about this the next day. [01:56:42] S0: Yeah. [01:56:43] S1: So many years later in 2009, TV Guide did a ranking of the greatest television episodes of all time. This episode was ranked number one. [01:56:57] S0: Yeah. Of course. So had they moved to Thursdays yet at this point? [01:57:00] S1: No. No. No. They're struggling. They're getting the pants beaten off of them by home improvement here on Wednesday nights. This is, like, the crucible moment for the show. So right after this is when NBC makes the decision. They say, alright. This is magic. We were right about this show that it's just special. We're gonna have to bet on this. We're gonna make this our future. We're gonna move it to Thursday right now. We're gonna air it after Cheers. And then when Cheers goes off the air after this season, Seinfeld is taking our top slot. [01:57:37] S0: If it performs. This is Yep. The Which, of course, Larry David, he's furious about this. [01:57:43] S1: Yes. Yes. [01:57:45] S0: His quote is, if they didn't watch us on Wednesdays, I don't want them watching us on Thursdays. We've earned this weird niche audience that is our people. And you're just about to, like, blast us out to the mass public. Yeah. Just gonna go right from Cheers into Seinfeld. They're gonna get hit by a mental bus.

01:57:45 · Ben Gilbert, David RosenthalPlay from here

[01:57:45] S0: His quote is, if they didn't watch us on Wednesdays, I don't want them watching us on Thursdays. We've earned this weird niche audience that is our people. And you're just about to, like, blast us out to the mass public. Yeah. Just gonna go right from Cheers into Seinfeld. They're gonna get hit by a mental bus. [01:58:03] S1: Yes. Famously, that was Larry's reaction. And equally famously, this is why they were such a great partnership. Jerry's response to NBC about the move to Thursday night was, thank you very much. We will take the new time slot. [01:58:19] S0: Yeah. Good business decision. [01:58:21] S1: Yes. Yes. [01:58:22] S0: It is interesting thinking about Larry's reaction here. So part of it is, like, just this purist because he's a purist in so many ways. And he's got the element of George Costanza. He's not as pathetic as George is. No. I think that's a fair... George, they've amped up the pathetic dial to eleven. But he does have the sort of duality in him that George has, which is thinking he's the greatest thing to ever walk planet Earth. And George is not, but Larry kind of is, but coupled with extreme self consciousness, self loathing, and self doubt. Yes. And so to tell Larry David, like, we're gonna promote you to this giant spot, it's like, no. No. If people truly loved us, they would have sought us out and found us. I don't need these people who aren't gonna do work to watch my excellent perfect television show. [01:59:12] S1: Right.

01:59:12 · David Rosenthal, Ben GilbertPlay from here

[01:59:12] S1: Right. [01:59:13] S0: And I think it is true... You know, we think about this for acquired a lot. I think there's a business strategy angle to growing slowly through word-of-mouth. It makes you more durable when you grow slowly through word-of-mouth and have a core of extreme fandom versus quick mass exposure. It's like like the quicker you go up, the quicker you go down. Whereas I think Seinfeld taking four seasons across five years to break through is part of the durability. There was, like, a real core to explode out from. [01:59:50] S1: Absolutely. That is all true. And once you make the contest, you can't go back. [01:59:57] S0: Right. It's [01:59:58] S1: true. You gotta go to Thursday night. Yep. You gotta be in the big leagues. Yep. It is a landmark moment.

01:59:58 · David Rosenthal, Ben GilbertPlay from here

[01:59:58] S1: true. You gotta go to Thursday night. Yep. You gotta be in the big leagues. Yep. It is a landmark moment. [02:00:03] S0: Okay. So I never understood why Thursday nights were such a great business before or why this was such a big deal for TV. People would always talk about the Thursday night lineup, and I grew up watching friends. When I watched Seinfeld, it was more in reruns because I was born literally the month that the pilot came out. So to me, the whole arc was basically before I was of Seinfeld watching age. I've now seen every episode, but mostly in reruns. So for me, Friends was the anchor NBC show on Thursday night, and I kinda knew Thursday was the biggest night. But why? Right? Why is it different than Tuesday? I get why it's different than Friday. Friday's a weekend. Saturday and Sunday are kind of about sports or going out or living your life, but, like, why are we discriminating between days of the week? It was your last chance to reach audience before the weekend. Yep. So if you're launching a movie that's gonna come out on Friday, you need to be advertising. If you're launching a product where you wanna drive people to stores over the weekend, if you're trying to hit consumer messaging before some set of weekend activities, Thursday night was your last shot at it, and it was the most important for recency bias to land a message. [02:01:10] S1: If you're NBC itself and you wanna advertise that week's NFL matchup, yes, it is the most important night. And the Thursday night lineup on NBC was more profitable than all of the other nights combined.

02:01:10 · David Rosenthal, Ben GilbertPlay from here

[02:01:10] S1: If you're NBC itself and you wanna advertise that week's NFL matchup, yes, it is the most important night. And the Thursday night lineup on NBC was more profitable than all of the other nights combined. [02:01:30] S0: What? Yes. It's that outsized? [02:01:33] S1: Yes. It was that outsized. Now part of that too was just because NBC was such a powerhouse on Thursday night. That's where their marquee shows lived. But... Wow. Because you have [02:01:44] S0: the the same amount of ad inventory you are selling each weekday [02:01:48] S1: Yep. [02:01:49] S0: Night. And Thursday's rates were high enough that it dwarfed the sales for all those other nights. Wow. Yes. Combined. [02:02:00] S1: Yes. So Seinfeld moving into this hallowed time slot is huge. Huge. And, boy, does it work. So the first week that Seinfeld moves to Thursdays in February 1993. NBC, by the way, had had the Super Bowl in January 1993. They used promos during the Super Bowl to announce the Seinfeld move to Thursday night. So they went big. [02:02:32] S0: And had they coined it must see TV yet? [02:02:35] S1: No. So they rolled out that must see TV slogan for Seinfeld as the anchor moving into Thursday nights. [02:02:42] S0: And it was what? Seinfeld, Cheers had ended. So I guess Frasier was... The spin off was just starting. I think Wings [02:02:49] S1: Right. Mad About You. There's a whole sub drama of Wings was the golden child from the comedy department at NBC. So the the actual sitcom department, were they always trying to push wings over Seinfeld.

02:02:49 · David Rosenthal, Ben GilbertPlay from here

[02:02:49] S1: Right. Mad About You. There's a whole sub drama of Wings was the golden child from the comedy department at NBC. So the the actual sitcom department, were they always trying to push wings over Seinfeld. [02:03:01] S0: But NBC did something really smart here branding the night as must see TV and creating, like, a network identity around NBC rather than just marketing the shows themselves. So you actually ended up with this affinity for the network. [02:03:15] S1: I mean, for me growing up, NBC meant something because of this. Like, none of the other networks meant anything. They just had stuff that I watched on them. [02:03:25] S0: And that continued. I mean, if I think about what came after Seinfeld, Friends, The Office Yep. In between the two, you had Will and Grace around the time of The Office, and later, you had 30 Rock, Parks and Rec. [02:03:36] S1: Yep. Yep. There was, like, this whole NBC comedy powerhouse. [02:03:41] S0: Yes. Yep. And a lot of it using SNL talent Yes. Which is also NBC. [02:03:45] S1: Which is also technically true of Seinfeld. Yes. So back to the the actual move here in February 1993, when Seinfeld moves from Wednesday to Thursday, the show's ratings rise 57%, and it goes from the forty fifth most popular TV show on air to the fifth in one week. Now, obviously, a huge part of that is the power of the time slot, but it's also, like, after the contest, it changes everything. You you can't go back.