00:29:50 · Jordi Hays
[00:29:50] S1: I feel like people kind of like right now, the I mean, the entire market is just going through like rolling stages of AI psychosis and everyone's having it in different ways. Right? So like if you do like equity research, you're obviously gonna go through period of AI psychosis because you can just like type in a few words and get like what what looks like, you know, days, weeks of of, you know, really really great work. And sometimes it is great work. And if you're a designer, web designer and you can do type in a few words and get what looks like a great website instantly, you're also gonna go through that period and and you can just see these sort of like pockets of of AI psychosis all around the industry industry broadly. Broadly. Mhmm. But it does sort of like fade at some point and then if you're able to stay sane, you know, through those periods and not let yourself succumb to it, you can get excited about the potential and benefit from it but not lose your mind in the process. And I think like we were seeing that with, you know, early on with ChatGPT and like writing. Right? Before Mhmm. It was super obvious to clock. And then we were seeing that with design specifically where yeah. When you can just go and just generate stuff design that looks like good design. I'm not saying it is good design. And and I think we're kind of coming out of that now where you can just instantly clock when something was was generated and sometimes for a specific type of asset or use case, it's totally the right move to just generate something quickly. But I think we're already in a period right now where I if I go to a startup's website and it's clear that it was just like a one shot, you know, prompt, like that says something about the company. Could be good, could be bad. We don't know.
00:31:46 · Dylan Field
[00:31:46] S6: Jordy, I think you're absolutely right. But seriously, I I mean, this is the the balance oh, thank you. I I use the balance we had to strike with the Figma's design assistant design agent launch today. Yeah. And what we tried to do was make it so that we can really help you bring the context from your file into the agent's context window. And with that, two things that maybe are what will be most helpful for the designer in the moment, spawn agents to do explorations variations, do the the sort of rote tasks that are more boring. So things like design system maintenance, for example, how do we make it so that you're able to do that way faster with Figma's design agent than you would if you're just manually clicking on all these variable names or or manually change a bunch of components or text translation or any number of things. And so, you know, it's been really fun to kind of explore how does the design agent work and where can we make it better because there's so much more we can do to handle more of these tasks that, you know, designers are able to elevate themselves and work at a greater level to actually push aesthetic past AI slob, to actually push past, you know, the cliches and get to real innovation, solve real UX problems for users rather than making it so that you just have to go do this boring these boring tasks to just get through and unblock people or unblock your team. And I think that the design agent will really help there and bring more of it into the canvas where then you can share and collaborate with your team or with other agents. So I'm excited for where it goes, and I think today's really big and kudos to the team because they've been working really hard making so that we're able to take all all the advances with models and LMs and apply them to design. Getting these models to speak design well has been nontrivial and very cool.
00:33:56 · John Coogan
[00:33:56] S0: That's awesome. I I feel like a lot of a lot of software engineers who are interacting with coding agents are experiencing like incredible amounts of like bloat in the code and there's questions about like are you introducing are are are you like laying really shoddy foundation that will come back to bite you later and a lot of people say the answer to slop is just more slop. But in the design context, are you feeling pain from Slop. Figma where design systems or are you at least designing the agentic design tool in a way that is aware of that potential pitfall in advance because there is a world where, you know, oh the drudgery is taking my website and you know, doing design iterations for every single possible viewport or device. And if that gets out of sync that can be very complex. At the same time if you wind up you know, instantiating all that and then it doesn't tie together, you could wind up with some sort of, you know, misalignment and, like, it it could be very difficult to manage in the long term and you could wind up with, like, bloat.
00:35:11 · Dylan Field
[00:35:11] S6: Yeah. I mean, look, I think that it's different context for sure when you're in a sort of code base and you're using COD and it's overclaiming and making stuff up Mhmm. Or you're using, you know, OpenAI's ChatGPT models. 5.5 is amazing, but, like, definitely overcomplexifies things. And, you know, these these teams will deal with the sort of problems that are being identified, and they'll fix them and figure them out. But, overall, I think it's a different sort of class of problem than, like, when you're in a design file, and, really, part of your mode is exploration. If we can help you with that exploration, that can be useful for the user. And in terms of semantics, I mean, the way that you represent a a component or, you know, you the way you apply auto layout even, these are all examples of things that we've had to get more rigorous around how we build evals for this Mhmm. To make sure that we're doing things in a way that is both clear and opinionated, but also doesn't get in the way of the user. Mhmm. And I think the worthy year for us has been evals and probably for the industry. And so there's so much on the eval side that, you know, we have to always be improving on. And part of the feedback that we'll get from this beta will be towards where have we missed the mark and what we need to do better. And I think there's lots of room to grow there. I'll also say that I think that when you look at products like Weave, there's so much potential to not have necessarily this pile on effect, but rather to explore more with AI. The outputs of the models are like clay you can mold.
00:36:51 · S2, Dylan Field, John Coogan
[00:36:51] S2: Mhmm. [00:36:52] S6: And, you know, it's like, how do you take stuff? I mean, that might be a one shot slop that's generated, but then actually apply it across multiple models in a pipeline in order to actually figure out a way to make it into what you want. And sometimes the best way to do that is to get on a canvas and use your hands. Sometimes the best way to do that is through a workflow you define. Other times, it's by going back and forth with an agent. I think you have to be very smart about what you do when, and it's our responsibility as a tool creator to give you all the options. [00:37:24] S0: Mhmm. Jordy?
00:37:24 · John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[00:37:24] S0: Mhmm. Jordy? [00:37:25] S1: What are you excited about in terms of using AI to help augment the creative process. Because when I think of Part of what I think is exciting about this moment is like I don't Right now right now it's hard. Like a human still has to have like the fundamental kind of idea. Right? And and and you we know that because you have to like type it into a box. Right? You need to you need to do the typing still. So we we we're still we're still necessary there. But when I think about like iconic like startup brands, think of Linear. I think of some of what like Cursor has done over the last couple years. I think of like Figma's brand where there's so much work that went into just like coming up with that coming up with like the concept and and the look and feel of the brand. And then like way way way more work in terms of like instantiating that brand across every possible surface area. And part of what I think is exciting about this moment is like we're potentially entering into a world where you can spend more time just doing that like heavy creative work coming up with like a concept that can stand out. And then once you create a system, then you can like much more rapidly scale it across, again, all these different surface areas, whether it's like digital products, web, you know, email, ads, etcetera. How are you thinking about like augmenting and giving creative superpowers on that on that, like, brand building process when you're kind of coming up with coming up with, like, the idea?