The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
00:09:29 · Harry Stebbings, Daniel Dines
[00:09:29] S1: Well, I mean, I'm not being rude. It it is. Like, that's why people remain with OpenAI because it has memory, and it is able to infer from past queries, prompts, and give you suggestions based on those. So it does have memory. [00:09:43] S0: It has memory, but memory, it's not necessarily learning. It's not the same thing. Memory, it's just a thing that is written down. When I'm talking to you, I don't go back into my memory. I am just being transformed. It's like a model, it's like a new version of the model that comes improved. That new version is not the old version plus a piece of paper that has memorized. It's transformed into its own weights. This is why a model becomes much better. Look, I want to give you a simple example using our own technology. We make our UiPath platform available for coding agents. So people are making, it much easier to create automations on UiPath right now. But what we discover is that a model that has read open source technology, and they have a lot of examples, and they already have in its weights a certain technology will be much better than to create on our own technology. Because regardless how many prompts and skills we create, the model has it in its own weight. It's very different. And think of all the metaphors in the world When you read something versus when you leave something. You can read the biography. It doesn't mean you live that life. It doesn't mean you are transforming. You are gonna answer like that person that live it. To me, really, is the biggest limitations that the models have right now.
00:11:08 · Harry Stebbings
[00:11:08] S1: So I I actually do agree with you, but I think everyone does, and that's why everyone is chasing, you know, recursive self improvement so much, where it's models that can continuously learn from themselves and improve themselves over time without need for human intervention. Does that not remove the limitation that we just said? I don't know, Ben.
00:11:28 · Daniel Dines
[00:11:28] S0: Maybe we are the result of a self improvement loop. Look. Do this thought exercise. Let's put a model that we have today with the best technology. Put it in a spaceship and throw it to the stars. Let's say that we have this technology, like I think von Neumann imagined that is self replicated, this spaceship, goes to different stars, get energy, and they can continue... So compute will be infinite. And models will self improve. Where they would end up with? Maybe they will create a simulation of a world like ourselves. Right? Because they will intrude infinitely. Basically, this is the theory. So they will simulate a world as complex as our own world within it. But that means that we are part of an infinite simulation. So I don't know where it's gonna lead, but I know that there is a big distinction that I made in the book between will and reasoning. It's not like that we are certain that the will to do something, you know, emerges from reasoning or from... Even from consciousness. I think will is a kind of a separate, you know, part of the fabric of the universe. I don't think we as humanity have a clarity about what will is. I think it's wishful thinking to believe that I can take a big model, put into a self improvement loop, and this model is gonna generate will. I don't kind of believe so.
00:12:59 · Harry Stebbings
[00:12:59] S1: But I think we don't know. And I think that's what's so kind of challenging about trying to predict what happens. It's like a world of, as I said, percussive self improvement is unknown in terms of where it lands. It's like a technology you can create can become something you didn't know it could be. And I guess for me, the question then is like, we see the news this week. Dario says we need to pace the frontier. You run UiPath today. Do you feel we need to pace the frontier?
00:13:25 · Daniel Dines
[00:13:25] S0: I would say if they truly believe that this technology is becoming rogue and they cannot control it and their experiments will create significant loss for, I don't know, Internet, other systems, if I were them, I would I would pace it, you know, at any cost because I don't wanna risk going to jail, honestly. I think there are laws that, you know, kind of control this type of rogue behavior. So, honestly, I I don't need an external pressure to control. I would be just concerned Citizen and I would not build a technology that, you know, is causing harm. But now, of course, they think that this is the only way to protect against the bad boys. So we are the good guys, but there will be some bad boys that probably in other parts of the world that will build the technology regardless. So I think that probably they ask more like a boss. I wanna build this technology at any risk, and I'm willing to open my gates for other to to see how I'm doing because I wanna do it in as of, you know, like, a good manner as possible. But in the same time, I wanna be free of consequences. To me, I think this is a bit how I read this memo. Because otherwise, I think it's kind of obvious. I don't think we will reason with the bad guys, and we can make a coalition with the bad guys to stop the frontier. So we can make a coalition only with the good guys regardless. I would take even, in my opinion, even the labs in China that are building AI right now, I would classify them as the good guys. But someone... To me, I think the indirect, the attack is probably on open source. Because, basically, they say even if the good guys are building open source, but that open source will get into the hands of the bad guys. And this is unknown bad guys. This is the real danger. So the danger is in open source. So indirectly, it's also an attack to open source in this way. It's it's it's a way of interpreting, I guess.
00:15:26 · Harry Stebbings, Daniel Dines
[00:15:26] S1: You work with some of the biggest enterprises in the world with UiPath. Alex Karpman said from Palantir that the biggest enterprise in the world are scared to work with Frontier Labs because of threat of them coming in to their businesses over time. They have the data. They could build their own and compete against them. Do you see large enterprises scared to work with Frontier providers? [00:15:48] S0: I think so. Yes. I I don't think people are scared that OpenAI will build a competitor to them necessarily. I don't see this coming. They are more scared that their IP would leak to other existing competitors somehow. Because I I don't know if I'm manufacturing somehow shrews or whatever. I don't think OpenAI is gonna come and compete with me on this thing. But probably some of other guys can get indirectly via the models the same intelligence if OpenAI will train the model. I think that's the real danger. And I think it's it's a legitimate danger, and I think everyone is trying to protect their IPs. You you said about kind of [00:16:35] S1: clear articulation of thoughts that come from writing. What was another thought that you clearly articulated through the writing process?