The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
00:51:52 · Daniel Dines
[00:51:52] S0: I didn't understand this necessity to have a manual in order to work. That was maybe the biggest breakthrough in my understanding. That every time I'm running a query towards AI, AI should have at their disposition the entire way, you know, my company work or this particular process work. When I realized this, I understood also that this thing that it's the the biggest differential between memory and true learning. This is how we started the discussion. And I'm not sure I really make a point, but it's a huge difference between just laying down, having a scratch pad, or being transformed by an experience. And that's the thing that I realized the most. And I think I realized also what's kind of human for us Because I experienced a lot with AI writing, not code, but writing a book. So I've been through different styles. I I understood a lot how to prompt them. AI doesn't have a style. And you you realize why they don't have a style, because they are an averager of anything. In order to have a style, you need to have kind of a body. You need to have individuality, because we are the choice that we made and the choice that we don't make in a sense. So you need to be transformed because otherwise, I will just ask AI, read this book and write in the spirit of this author. And it's not really working because you need to be transformed by the experience. So to me, this is gonna be the biggest breakthrough in the AI technology when I can have models at the size of mythos being transformed on a job, being, you know, putting in a laptop. And it might be possible, who knows, you know, the pace of technology. Maybe twenty years from now, I can have a 10,000,000,000,000 model that is my own model and is getting transformed along with me. But we need to see. I think there might be a few series of innovations to get there. Because I wanna give you also an interesting data point. AI is solving very interesting math problems that humans didn't solve before right now. But AI still, it's not capable of creating frameworks. I don't know. Relativity is a framework. Okay? And I was thinking, why so? I think one of the main reason relates still with this not being transformed when you are on the job. When I'm writing a book, I am being transformed by the act of writing this book.
00:54:30 · Daniel Dines, Harry Stebbings
Every time I'm writing something down, there is something in me that changes that is not necessarily the memory thing. It's me that is changing. Einstein has been changed by his experience thinking about the speed of light of what happens when you go, you know, behind the light. It's not like Einstein wrote it down. And then every time he fought again, he rewrote a piece of paper. No. He became gradually, you know, a different Einstein than the one that started to think of a problem when he created this thinking, this frame of relativity. Models don't do this way. Even if I put swarm of agents, everything, they have to write down everything. They are not being transformed by the process. So therefore, it's very difficult. In the end, they will have this context, the 1,000,000. It's very hard to go beyond this 1,000,000 tokens context window. A frame might require a transformation as you work on that frame. It's a it's a different way of learning than pure memory. So that's... I wanna make this argument as clear as possible. [00:55:42] S1: Are you optimistic for your children? [00:55:44] S0: I'm extremely optimistic for myself, Fari, therefore for my children. I don't wanna sound like an AI doomer, man, because I I believe I don't think you do. I am. [00:55:55] S1: No. I don't think you do. I sound like a doomer in a way. I I think we'll have a lot more job loss. I think it will happen a lot quicker. I think we're seeing it in real time.
00:55:55 · Harry Stebbings, Daniel Dines
[00:55:55] S1: No. I don't think you do. I sound like a doomer in a way. I I think we'll have a lot more job loss. I think it will happen a lot quicker. I think we're seeing it in real time. [00:56:03] S0: I'm much more optimistic that we won't have so much. Because based on my own experience with AI, I don't think the diffusion is as fast as you imagine, particularly because enterprise have to document in much greater detail their processes. [00:56:18] S1: Can I just ask, sorry, we're both Europeans, and we're both sitting in London? I don't know how to say this, but we don't matter anymore, just being blunt. Do you think that gets better or worse in the next three to five years? [00:56:31] S0: Yes, man. It's hard to admit the reality, but from a technology standpoint, I think we are largely irrelevant. But it's so stupid because the biggest producer of machines that make chips is based in Europe. It's ASML. Yeah. We could have made these chips in Europe. You know, some of the most brilliant minds that build AI, even if you think Dario, Sam, all of them are European origins. Ilya, we had the talent. We have the technology to build the machines, but somehow we are losing it. And it's very stupid. [00:57:07] S1: Do you see a difference in work ethic having a team in The US and The UK? [00:57:11] S0: Yes. I I experience with teams in UK, and at 5PM, they are all, you know, in the pub. [00:57:18] S1: Why is that? Because money matters more?
00:57:18 · Harry Stebbings, Daniel Dines
[00:57:18] S1: Why is that? Because money matters more? [00:57:21] S0: I think culture matters more than money. It's a more dynamic culture. I don't think I would have succeed in Europe the way I did in US. So I... I'm an European, but as an entrepreneur, I am... I'm American. This is what I told to everybody. So I... My formation is an American school of entrepreneurship even if I started my company in year. [00:57:44] S1: Listen, I I get it. And you look at Legora and you look at 11 and some of the best companies to come out of Europe in the last few years. And if you think the revenue machine is anywhere but in America, you're lying to yourself. [00:57:55] S0: It's an easier to access revenue machine than in Europe, clearly. [00:58:00] S1: Faster. It's easier. The teams have scaled GTM functions before. Completely agree with you. [00:58:06] S0: And American companies are making larger bets on vision without waiting for so many proof points as the European companies. And even people in the middle management can make sizable million dollar bets on new technologies in US. I haven't seen this appetite in Europe. [00:58:28] S1: I don't want to ask this, but I am interested. If you were to advise a young European entrepreneur today, would you say to go to The US?
00:58:28 · Harry Stebbings, Daniel Dines
[00:58:28] S1: I don't want to ask this, but I am interested. If you were to advise a young European entrepreneur today, would you say to go to The US? [00:58:36] S0: Yes. That's the that's the sad reality. I think that unless they build for a specific market with some specificity in mind, if they build a universal technology, they will have a better chance to succeed in US. There will be many successful European companies coming out of this. Maybe not as frontier labs, but I think for the application of AI. [00:59:01] S1: Do you buy sovereignty as an argument? [00:59:03] S0: Yes. I think it's an important one. [00:59:05] S1: The energy sovereignty, model sovereignty? [00:59:07] S0: Yes. 100. And all European customers right now would prefer on prem software model sovereignty and model optionality. Yes. 100%. This is a big business that it's coming here. Look. I talked to our friends at Fireworks, and I actually tried to convince them to make their software available on prem. Right now they are in show me the money, but I can tell, guys, this is a big business. You need to prove first because this is Europe. Show them the technology and the money will come. [00:59:38] S1: How much revenue does UiPath do today? [00:59:41] S0: I think it's public data. We are at 1.6, growing last year, like, 14%. [00:59:49] S1: So Jason Lemkins taught me that, like, unless you're growing 20% plus, you're just fucked in the public markets. Like, it's grow or die, and it's a horrible reality in that way. I'm not condoning it. It's horrible. Yeah. Is that right?
00:59:49 · Harry Stebbings, Daniel Dines
[00:59:49] S1: So Jason Lemkins taught me that, like, unless you're growing 20% plus, you're just fucked in the public markets. Like, it's grow or die, and it's a horrible reality in that way. I'm not condoning it. It's horrible. Yeah. Is that right? [01:00:02] S0: Yeah. Because I think the public markets are very confused right now of who are the AI winners or losers. And if you don't show serious growth and traction, they automatically put you into AI losers without looking really deep into the business. There are so many hundreds of software companies in the public market. So then it's hard to look at each of them. [01:00:26] S1: So if I were to flip it on you, and we do a final one for a quick fire, what is the bull case to UiPath being a $50,000,000,000 company?