00:31:38 · Priya, Anika
[00:31:38] S1: Wait. I I think it for sure is. [00:31:40] S2: No. I think it's just economic cycles. Like, I think tech was just in a really cushy economic cycle and, like, now is in more of an ROI based moment. [00:31:51] S1: But I think there's It's like way more startups coming up right now. And I also think that, like, the early stage startups, a lot of bigger companies are worried about all of those startups and how fast everyone's moving. Because when you're starting from nothing, you can ship pretty quickly because you have, like, nothing to go... Yeah. You have nothing to maintain, nothing to go off of. But also, like, we've seen that bite people in the ass by also not having any security in place or having, like, any of the things that make a truly scalable business in place. But I think that those companies are pushing bigger companies to have to, like, ship faster. But that also means, like, not keeping your quality bar as high Yeah. As a result. [00:32:30] S2: There have been people working these hours in other industries for like decades. And it's not because of AI. It's just because like there's pressure to be the best and it's a product of competition. AI is like for sure a factor in the sense that a lot of the competition is because of AI. It's like [00:32:46] S1: the catalyst but not the reason.
00:32:46 · Priya, Anika, Maya
[00:32:46] S1: the catalyst but not the reason. [00:32:47] S2: Yeah. Yeah. I think you end up in a feedback loop where it's, like, more cultural where certain startup founders... Like, don't know. Do you guys see the clip that just went viral of the Corgi founder? No. No. Wait. Really? It's so viral. It has millions of views because he's like, if you want Saturdays and Sundays off, like, don't work here. And then Harry Stebbings [00:33:06] S0: saying that forever. [00:33:07] S2: No. But this clip was like kinda shocking because then Harry Stebbings was like, would you rather die at 50 and Corgi is trillion a dollar company or live till 80? And he's like, you already know the answer. And it's like, there's a really dramatic clip. And then the linear CEO was like, you're a fucking clown. [00:33:24] S1: And then and then, no, [00:33:25] S2: it was Nico. And then the Corgi co founder responded and was like, do you think the people that were building the Manhattan project were working one day a week? And then the Linear CEO responded and was like, wait. Sorry. So then Nico goes to the Linear c... I'm pretty sure it's the Linear CEO. He's like, I'm I'm glad you built a billion dollar company over seven years, but like something something... And he framed it like the billion dollar over seven years was like a compliment, it like clearly wasn't. And then the... And then he was like, do you think that... Nico was like, do think the people building the Manhattan Project were working one day And then the Linear CEO responded and was like, did you just compare startup insurance to
00:33:25 · Anika, Priya
[00:33:25] S2: it was Nico. And then the Corgi co founder responded and was like, do you think the people that were building the Manhattan project were working one day a week? And then the Linear CEO responded and was like, wait. Sorry. So then Nico goes to the Linear c... I'm pretty sure it's the Linear CEO. He's like, I'm I'm glad you built a billion dollar company over seven years, but like something something... And he framed it like the billion dollar over seven years was like a compliment, it like clearly wasn't. And then the... And then he was like, do you think that... Nico was like, do think the people building the Manhattan Project were working one day And then the Linear CEO responded and was like, did you just compare startup insurance to [00:34:02] S1: the Manhattan Project? That's funny. [00:34:06] S2: And I was like, I'm actually gonna start crying. That's so funny. But I guess what I'm trying to say is like that clip got millions and millions of views. And I think it's just an example of how Silicon Valley now has a cultural obsession with working hard. [00:34:19] S1: Yeah. They
00:34:19 · Priya, Anika, Maya
[00:34:19] S1: Yeah. They [00:34:20] S2: do. And I genuinely think that does make a difference. Because at the end of the day, like, not all of these companies, but a lot of these companies could have their employees working normal hours. And like, to your point, yeah, like AI means you should be able to produce more. But I think a lot of companies, like, people have a sense of like what their employees can do in a day. Like I think at my company, like my manager and like my manager's manager, like everyone understands like what can be done in a day. And like Like if you're Even with AI, like it's not... [00:34:48] S0: Yeah. Yeah. It's like AI has created this gold rush of like products to be built and everyone wants to build these products and then they compete with each other. And it's like, if you're gonna get to a billion or a $10,000,000,000 valuation in like a matter of two years, you can also lose that in a matter of a year. And so you just have to keep working to keep to stay alive. [00:35:06] S2: I also think, like, when you have a moment in time where everyone basically decides your industry is gonna die. And it's people that were, like, coding, right, are probably some of the smartest people in terms of, like, the schools they went to, like, their careers, whatever. And then they're being told like, you're all gonna be out of jobs. Like, this career is basically dead. [00:35:24] S1: Sorry. They react like Maya.
00:35:24 · Priya, Anika, Maya
[00:35:24] S1: Sorry. They react like Maya. [00:35:26] S2: Yeah. And like, I I genuinely think the reaction is like, these people just start working insane hours being like, I need to figure out how to like not get less behind. Yeah. [00:35:36] S0: Yeah. Well, because like the nature of the job is changing. Like, you don't work the way you used to work. Like, you make different decisions now than you used to. [00:35:42] S1: Yeah. And software engineering roles are up 14% year over year. Yeah. So we're actually hiring more people. [00:35:48] S2: Yeah. [00:35:49] S1: Not meta though. You should still go [00:35:51] S0: to school and get a CS degree. I have had to ask answer this question for multiple for multiple frantic parents. They're like, Maya, you know everything about AI. Like, can I? Should I still send my high school student to like a CS degree? And I'm like, yeah, it's okay. Like, you learn theory and the way to think in those colleges, like, that that just doesn't [00:36:10] S1: go away. You need a theoretical program. Like, think Berkeley and, like, CMU are, like, really theoretical programs, but I've heard of people that go to, like, other programs that are all Software engineering. Yeah. Software engineering, like, application based to basically set you up to get a good job. And I think, like, that is not a valuable degree to have. Yeah. I think, like, the valuable d... Degree to have is the theory, and you actually have to learn it and not use AI. [00:36:33] S0: Yeah. But I think it's no different than cheating on your test like...
00:36:33 · Maya, Anika, Priya
[00:36:33] S0: Yeah. But I think it's no different than cheating on your test like... [00:36:36] S2: Yeah. Yeah. And then the other thing worth mentioning is this year alone, there's been over a 100,000 layoffs that have already happened in the tech sector alone. And people are like, is this because of AI? Is it not? And I feel like it's a combination of [00:36:49] S1: It's somewhere in middle, think. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. [00:36:52] S2: I also feel like it makes sense. Like, the reason why CEOs blame it on AI is because admitting that you have a bloated organization is like admitting your own mismanagement versus saying it's because of AI makes investors think you're on like the cutting edge. Yeah. Right? It's all Yeah. It's all [00:37:08] S1: It's all a little game. [00:37:10] S0: The other thing I wanted to talk about is Torsten Sløk, which is the chief economist at Apollo Global Management also published a note saying like pointing to the weekly ADP employment data. So ADP is basically like a payroll processor and they've now published like weekly employment data to understand like, are people getting hired? [00:37:26] S2: It was [00:37:26] S0: like, is job stable? And he said that there's zero evidence of AI related job losses. This And was pretty big because ADP process like processes one out of six, like people's paychecks essentially. I used to process my paycheck. Yeah. And so this is a... Essentially, was just making a point that like, the Jevons paradox is real here Mhmm. Which we can go into what that is. I don't know if you want to do that.