00:40:49 · Akash Pasricha, Phoebe Liu
[00:40:49] S0: Okay. So, Phoebe, as I read this story, you know, one of the through lines that came through to me was, as Leo mentioned, you know, Jensen has occupied this role now of chief allocator, I guess. He's got the money, he's got the goods, he's got everything that everyone wants, and he has amassed so much power because of that. My read on this story, and I'm asking if this resonates with you, is people seem to be maybe getting a little bit tired of Jensen having all of this power and sort of calling the shots in the way that he does because this is advocacy groups, this is politicians, this is OpenAI now also saying, hey, well, can't we have our own opinions about this? Is that sort of your read on NVIDIA's current position in the AI political jungle of all this? [00:41:40] S5: Yeah. I mean, think in both Leo's conversations with sources and mine, the word tired came up. We're tired of their tactics or whatnot several times. So I think, yes, that is kind of the general sentiment among some policymakers in DC. That said, I think a lot of NVIDIA's biggest customers are also starting to get a little bit more leverage in that they are explicitly making their own trips, which could kind of sway the policy balance of power as well. On top of that, I think NVIDIA has made some new hires like Bruce Andrews and others that may be a sign that it's kind of stance in Washington is softening or kind of changing in some way or another to not be as sharp elbowed of... Like, a staunch supporter of export controls in the way that it has in the last year, year and a half.
00:41:40 · Phoebe Liu, Akash Pasricha
[00:41:40] S5: Yeah. I mean, think in both Leo's conversations with sources and mine, the word tired came up. We're tired of their tactics or whatnot several times. So I think, yes, that is kind of the general sentiment among some policymakers in DC. That said, I think a lot of NVIDIA's biggest customers are also starting to get a little bit more leverage in that they are explicitly making their own trips, which could kind of sway the policy balance of power as well. On top of that, I think NVIDIA has made some new hires like Bruce Andrews and others that may be a sign that it's kind of stance in Washington is softening or kind of changing in some way or another to not be as sharp elbowed of... Like, a staunch supporter of export controls in the way that it has in the last year, year and a half. [00:42:31] S0: And, Leo, what's what's your read on this from from the from the DC angle to all this?
00:42:31 · Akash Pasricha, Leo Schwartz
[00:42:31] S0: And, Leo, what's what's your read on this from from the from the DC angle to all this? [00:42:36] S4: Yeah. I think our our reporting, it came up again and again that the the real peak of this was last year. Jensen obviously found a huge ally in Trump. And when there was these legislative debates last year as part of the the Defense Authorization Act around export control bills, it was really able to throw its weight around on the hill, employing David Sachs, former AI czar within the Trump administration, who was an NVIDIA ally, to make sure that those bills didn't pass. We're seeing this again, this will come up after the midterms today. There's a different round of potential export control bills. And we kept hearing that it seems like NVIDIA will not be as strong armed or might not have as much of an impact as they did last year. So this is really the race to watch, is there are three big export control bills as part of this broader package being considered. If they are able to advance, it would show NVIDIA's winning influence, whether that's a factor of, like Phoebe said, them bringing in new people who have more of a soft approach on the hill, or because a lot of legislative offices are just getting tired of NVIDIA, or maybe because the Trump administration itself is souring on Nvidia. We'll see. But there is this big policy debate that's about to happen, and I think the results of it will be very telling.
00:42:36 · Leo Schwartz, Akash Pasricha
[00:42:36] S4: Yeah. I think our our reporting, it came up again and again that the the real peak of this was last year. Jensen obviously found a huge ally in Trump. And when there was these legislative debates last year as part of the the Defense Authorization Act around export control bills, it was really able to throw its weight around on the hill, employing David Sachs, former AI czar within the Trump administration, who was an NVIDIA ally, to make sure that those bills didn't pass. We're seeing this again, this will come up after the midterms today. There's a different round of potential export control bills. And we kept hearing that it seems like NVIDIA will not be as strong armed or might not have as much of an impact as they did last year. So this is really the race to watch, is there are three big export control bills as part of this broader package being considered. If they are able to advance, it would show NVIDIA's winning influence, whether that's a factor of, like Phoebe said, them bringing in new people who have more of a soft approach on the hill, or because a lot of legislative offices are just getting tired of NVIDIA, or maybe because the Trump administration itself is souring on Nvidia. We'll see. But there is this big policy debate that's about to happen, and I think the results of it will be very telling. [00:43:56] S0: Sorry, Leo, just to confirm, those three packages, the bills that I guess we are waiting to see if they go through, are those bipartisan? Do they fall on partisan lines? I'm just trying to understand how the midterms could affect that.
00:43:56 · Akash Pasricha, Leo Schwartz, Tore Svanberg
[00:43:56] S0: Sorry, Leo, just to confirm, those three packages, the bills that I guess we are waiting to see if they go through, are those bipartisan? Do they fall on partisan lines? I'm just trying to understand how the midterms could affect that. [00:44:11] S4: So they're bipartisan, but they'll likely be debated and passed before the new Congress. So this will happen during the voting duck session, after the elections today, and before January. This is another interesting dynamic, is that you know, China hawks are are not really limited to one party. You you see it often cross partisan lines, and and that's why I think this expert control bill discussion will be very telling, which is will NVIDIA be able to win back allies on on both sides of the aisle? [00:44:40] S0: Well, and also, if it's going to happen during the lame duck session, then some of these politicians have nothing to lose, and so you might actually see some of their very honest opinions on this matter come out, which I think might be very telling. I want to thank you both for coming on. That is Phoebe Liu, our NVIDIA reporter, and Leo Schwartz, our tech and politics reporter here at The Information. [00:45:03] S2: Thanks.
00:45:03 · Tore Svanberg, Akash Pasricha
[00:45:03] S2: Thanks. [00:45:04] S0: That does it for today's show. A reminder, are on this stream Monday through Friday at 10AM Pacific, 1PM Eastern. If you can't make it then, episodes are available on theinformation.com, on our YouTube channel, or wherever you get your podcasts. Make sure to follow us on social media, on X, on Instagram, on TikTok, and on LinkedIn. I am already excited for our next show tomorrow. Have a great rest of your Tuesday. Bye bye for now.