The Information's TITV
00:37:59 · Phoebe Liu, Akash Pasricha
[00:37:59] S5: Yeah. So last week, The New York Times published a very well reported story saying that Jensen had a close relationship with this Chinese business executive who had at some point been affiliated with a NVIDIA customer in Singapore that was under investigation for potentially skirting export controls and smuggling advanced NVIDIA chips to China. And The Times reported that the government had found or believed that that relationship possibly had a direct line into Beijing, and thought that Jensen might be the target of some kind of spy plot. It's unclear if any information actually did pass. That would be pretty, crazy. If so, we don't have evidence of that. But I think that's kind of a piece of the broader picture kind of undergirding all of this. And as far as Trump's comments go, over the weekend, he was basically saying, like, okay. Like, I still have full faith in him right now. Like, previously, I'd been briefed on this thing and, like, didn't take any action. And this time around, it seemed to suggest that he was going to look into it again. He was like, I have full faith in Jensen, like, unless or until we find something to the contrary. [00:39:17] S0: Right. Right. Leo, another stakeholder in this is how NVIDIA has been working with think tanks, I guess, in these advocacy groups? What do we know about those relationships?
00:39:17 · Akash Pasricha, Leo Schwartz
[00:39:17] S0: Right. Right. Leo, another stakeholder in this is how NVIDIA has been working with think tanks, I guess, in these advocacy groups? What do we know about those relationships? [00:39:32] S4: Yeah. I mean, we kept hearing in the course of this reporting that NVIDIA, in response to export controls, that limited powerful advanced AI chips going to China would have different arguments. One, that the Chinese chips didn't really have that different of capability or that chip smuggling wasn't actually that much of an issue. One of the most powerful players in the DC world is think tanks, which put out their own scholarship, but they often have a blurred line with donors like Nvidia who provide financing to them. Like publications, think tanks often purport to have editorial independence. But what we found out and kept hearing examples of was scholars at these think tanks putting out policy papers that were very in favor of export controls, and then the think tank getting very angry emails from NVIDIA's government affairs staff critiquing the papers or dangling the threat of their funding and their donations. So we have a lot of reporting about that in the story about how NVIDIA would express the displeasure and sometimes tie that with the money they were giving to the think tank, again, to show how they were influencing these policy discussions that were happening in D. C. Around export controls.
00:40:49 · Akash Pasricha, Phoebe Liu
[00:40:49] S0: Okay. So, Phoebe, as I read this story, you know, one of the through lines that came through to me was, as Leo mentioned, you know, Jensen has occupied this role now of chief allocator, I guess. He's got the money, he's got the goods, he's got everything that everyone wants, and he has amassed so much power because of that. My read on this story, and I'm asking if this resonates with you, is people seem to be maybe getting a little bit tired of Jensen having all of this power and sort of calling the shots in the way that he does because this is advocacy groups, this is politicians, this is OpenAI now also saying, hey, well, can't we have our own opinions about this? Is that sort of your read on NVIDIA's current position in the AI political jungle of all this? [00:41:40] S5: Yeah. I mean, think in both Leo's conversations with sources and mine, the word tired came up. We're tired of their tactics or whatnot several times. So I think, yes, that is kind of the general sentiment among some policymakers in DC. That said, I think a lot of NVIDIA's biggest customers are also starting to get a little bit more leverage in that they are explicitly making their own trips, which could kind of sway the policy balance of power as well. On top of that, I think NVIDIA has made some new hires like Bruce Andrews and others that may be a sign that it's kind of stance in Washington is softening or kind of changing in some way or another to not be as sharp elbowed of... Like, a staunch supporter of export controls in the way that it has in the last year, year and a half.
00:41:40 · Phoebe Liu, Akash Pasricha
[00:41:40] S5: Yeah. I mean, think in both Leo's conversations with sources and mine, the word tired came up. We're tired of their tactics or whatnot several times. So I think, yes, that is kind of the general sentiment among some policymakers in DC. That said, I think a lot of NVIDIA's biggest customers are also starting to get a little bit more leverage in that they are explicitly making their own trips, which could kind of sway the policy balance of power as well. On top of that, I think NVIDIA has made some new hires like Bruce Andrews and others that may be a sign that it's kind of stance in Washington is softening or kind of changing in some way or another to not be as sharp elbowed of... Like, a staunch supporter of export controls in the way that it has in the last year, year and a half. [00:42:31] S0: And, Leo, what's what's your read on this from from the from the DC angle to all this?
00:42:31 · Akash Pasricha, Leo Schwartz
[00:42:31] S0: And, Leo, what's what's your read on this from from the from the DC angle to all this? [00:42:36] S4: Yeah. I think our our reporting, it came up again and again that the the real peak of this was last year. Jensen obviously found a huge ally in Trump. And when there was these legislative debates last year as part of the the Defense Authorization Act around export control bills, it was really able to throw its weight around on the hill, employing David Sachs, former AI czar within the Trump administration, who was an NVIDIA ally, to make sure that those bills didn't pass. We're seeing this again, this will come up after the midterms today. There's a different round of potential export control bills. And we kept hearing that it seems like NVIDIA will not be as strong armed or might not have as much of an impact as they did last year. So this is really the race to watch, is there are three big export control bills as part of this broader package being considered. If they are able to advance, it would show NVIDIA's winning influence, whether that's a factor of, like Phoebe said, them bringing in new people who have more of a soft approach on the hill, or because a lot of legislative offices are just getting tired of NVIDIA, or maybe because the Trump administration itself is souring on Nvidia. We'll see. But there is this big policy debate that's about to happen, and I think the results of it will be very telling.
00:42:36 · Leo Schwartz, Akash Pasricha
[00:42:36] S4: Yeah. I think our our reporting, it came up again and again that the the real peak of this was last year. Jensen obviously found a huge ally in Trump. And when there was these legislative debates last year as part of the the Defense Authorization Act around export control bills, it was really able to throw its weight around on the hill, employing David Sachs, former AI czar within the Trump administration, who was an NVIDIA ally, to make sure that those bills didn't pass. We're seeing this again, this will come up after the midterms today. There's a different round of potential export control bills. And we kept hearing that it seems like NVIDIA will not be as strong armed or might not have as much of an impact as they did last year. So this is really the race to watch, is there are three big export control bills as part of this broader package being considered. If they are able to advance, it would show NVIDIA's winning influence, whether that's a factor of, like Phoebe said, them bringing in new people who have more of a soft approach on the hill, or because a lot of legislative offices are just getting tired of NVIDIA, or maybe because the Trump administration itself is souring on Nvidia. We'll see. But there is this big policy debate that's about to happen, and I think the results of it will be very telling. [00:43:56] S0: Sorry, Leo, just to confirm, those three packages, the bills that I guess we are waiting to see if they go through, are those bipartisan? Do they fall on partisan lines? I'm just trying to understand how the midterms could affect that.