The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway
00:32:57 · Gabe Stengel, Ed Elson
[00:32:57] S2: Is... People are everything. I mean, I couldn't... You know, would I rather lose our five biggest customers or our five best people? Five biggest customers hands down right now because the people are who building the product, building all the processes that will allow us to scale. Everything else, you know, ebbs and flows in the near term. The people are who actually are transmitting knowledge from one person to another, building our technology, iterating with high velocity. I mean, I think people are so much more important than I thought going at. [00:33:27] S1: I wanna talk about challenges and how you deal with them. I'm wondering what if if you can point to a specific time building this company that's... You identify as the biggest personal challenge that you faced.
00:33:42 · Gabe Stengel
[00:33:42] S2: There was a moment where nothing was working, and and we've been working on this for a while. Right? We've been pushing this vision of AI for finance before anyone in finance gave a shit about what we were doing, and we've been working on it. And there was a time when before we were picking up traction, before people were seeing the value, before we even knew how to how to speak eloquently about what we were building, and that's probably why people couldn't see the value. We had nothing, and it... I was fatalistic. I I wanted to give up. I felt trapped. I felt like there was nothing I could do to salvage what we were doing. I was here a steward of capital. I'd been given all this money to not just take care of, but then to create something and return value. And I just saw no way to to do anything. And I felt like I was in this box unable to get out. And, obviously, in retrospect, that was wrong. And, actually, the next day, we pivoted slightly of what we were doing. We were looking at structured data before, and then we started looking at unstructured data, which really for, you know, the the unanointed in Gen AI means stock going from analyzing things like stock prices to analyzing things like 10 k's. And it started working a lot better from a sales perspective. And the great part was we were actually able to leverage our preexisting work in technology to a huge degree that gave us a huge leg up, but I literally wanted to quit that day before. I was so ready to be done. I had a full panic attack. I called my cofounder. I was like, dude, what, like, what what what are we doing wrong? You know? I don't think we're dumb. I don't think we're working on things that aren't valuable. I actually think we're more sophisticated in the way we're building and thinking about this than so many people. Why is nothing going right?
00:35:13 · Ed Elson, Gabe Stengel
[00:35:13] S1: How did you get out of it? What did you do? I mean, you you... Specifically, the structured versus unstructured data point. But what did you do mentally Mentally? To [00:35:24] S2: continue? I mean, I I... One, I went home early and just like... I was like, I need to get out of here. And I I pace and listen to EDM music, so I did that quickly. And then I went home, and I just decided, you know, we're gonna run 10 more experiments on sales, on technology, on figuring out what wording works. And we're gonna give it, you know, three more months, and if it's still not working, you know, it's probably not a problem with the market. It's probably not a problem with the technology. It's probably a problem with me. And at that point, like, maybe it's time to wrap it up, and I should just be an investment banker rather than trying to be a technologist. Right. And we started running more experiments with more rapidity, and something worked. [00:36:02] S1: I guess that's sort of the question is identifying what is that moment when I should actually pack up and leave.
00:36:02 · Ed Elson, Gabe Stengel
[00:36:02] S1: I guess that's sort of the question is identifying what is that moment when I should actually pack up and leave. [00:36:08] S2: I actually... Yeah. I think that if you are a smart person working in an interesting space where there's a lot of commercial opportunity, the one thing you shouldn't do is is stop trying. Right? Like Mhmm. There's something that's gonna work, and you just need to keep trying until you figure it out. But it's hard. And that's the Jack Altman point about, you know, how much how how much grit do you have? Right. How much tenacity to not quit before you get to that point in PMF where, oh, you know, it's obvious I'm onto something. Yeah. Until then, have no evidence. And all the evidence at that point points to the contrary. It points to that you're wrong and dumb, and no one wants what you're building, and you're... Everything is incorrect. That's hard. [00:36:49] S1: How much of building a successful company do you think is the grit aspect that we've been talking about versus [00:36:57] S2: I innate ability. Just need to clarify for for everyone listening. I am nowhere close to yet having built a successful company. So, like, this is all, you know, this is all fun and and wishy washy. Like, we are still so far from being a successful company, and that's for many, many reasons. We've created great aspires to Yeah. [00:37:15] S1: You're on your way. [00:37:16] S2: Yeah. Hopefully. What am I trying to... Why what do I think is important, or what what do I think will be important? I mean, I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out.
00:37:16 · Gabe Stengel, Ed Elson
[00:37:16] S2: Yeah. Hopefully. What am I trying to... Why what do I think is important, or what what do I think will be important? I mean, I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out. [00:37:26] S1: Do you view yourself as [00:37:28] S2: talented? I mean, I think I'm, like, you know, of of normal to, you know, high intelligence. I can work on problems. I'm interested in things. I'm really curious. Mhmm. And I'm passionate about the technology and how it works and how it can work for people. [00:37:47] S1: The reason I ask is because I think a lot of this is about the ability to walk into a room with important people. In your case, you're talking with CEOs of banks and believing that you have a right to be in the room. And I think with a belief in your own abilities and your and your own talents, I'm sure that's a lot easier. And I wonder to what extent do you feel that you deserve to be in the room when you walk in there? [00:38:16] S2: Yeah. I mean, look, I think there's there's a lot of people who are smarter than me with better ideas, who could be more impressive in that room. And I've been lucky to be at this cross paths, this intersection of being born with an enormous amount of privilege and then being born as someone who can take advantage of those opportunities and, you know, prosecute them. [00:38:37] S1: So what advice would you give to a founder who's trying to start those meetings, who's trying to
00:38:37 · Ed Elson, Gabe Stengel
[00:38:37] S1: So what advice would you give to a founder who's trying to start those meetings, who's trying to [00:38:45] S2: Oh, reach out to people. So it's... I think one one part of it is, you know, being born with privilege and connectivity. I mean, I also... I probably send 40 cold emails, DMs, Twitter DMs, things a day that get ghosted or people literally, you know, tell me to fuck off Mhmm. Every day to all sorts of people. And I've been doing that for years. And I think you just you just have to reach out. I mean, if you send a 100 emails to a 100 different, you know, let's call it managing partners at a hedge fund, one is gonna respond. Once that one responds, you can say to the other 99, hey, I just chatted with, you know, Joe Schmo at this hedge fund. He mentioned this. Is that interesting to you? And then it can avalanche and compound. Right? But you you need to reach out to people yourself. You need to create that connectivity, and and I've done that as well. But that's, I mean, that's vital. [00:39:33] S1: You have a a cofounder, John Willett, who you started the company with, and he is the [00:39:39] S2: COO or Okay. [00:39:42] S1: How has that relationship developed? Because I know that you were you were friends in college. You joint wrote a thesis together in college, and now you started this company. What have been some of the learnings from starting a company with a friend?