The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway
00:27:13 · Ed Elson, Gabe Stengel
[00:27:13] S1: We're back with First Time Founders. Has there ever been a time where it didn't work out, the pitch didn't work, the product... You got a bad review on the product, and you thought, what am [00:27:27] S2: I doing? Has there ever been a time... I mean, it only happens 50 times a day where some... Why didn't this work? You know? What... Five times a day, we get an email being like, the login didn't even work. You know? There's so much that's in flux. And then there's early on when John and I were going on pitching hedge funds, pre the ChatGPT craze, I mean, AI sounded like snake oil. It didn't sound like the future. We got laughed out of rooms. We would work so hard to get a single meeting with a fund, and then they would just be like, why the fuck would we want this and not Bloomberg? What are you talking about? And we'd be like, well, you know, it's the future. It's gonna change everything. They'd be like, let's see the product. We'd be like, don't [00:28:02] S1: worry about it.
00:28:02 · Ed Elson, Gabe Stengel
[00:28:02] S1: worry about it. [00:28:03] S2: Like, it's coming when you pay. Like, of course, we got laughed out at rooms. I mean, I remember not even that long ago, a little less than a year ago, I... We were so pessimistic about what we were building, not because we didn't believe in the technology and not because we didn't believe in, you know, writ large the trend of what we were doing or our team. It was just like, it was a low moment. And I think you have a lot of lows and a lot of highs when you're building a company. And and, you know, when you say entrepreneurial journey, I cringe a little bit. Right? Like Because you're [00:28:31] S1: just starting. [00:28:32] S2: I'm just starting. Right? I am I am like a baby compared to guys who have really done it, guys and gals who have really done it. I mean, we are so early innings, and yet it it has been hard and interesting and ups and downs and so on. [00:28:43] S1: One founder said on this podcast that the biggest obstacle in building a company is the desire to quit, and that actually your job as a founder is to just figure out as many ways as possible to minimize the probability that you're going to just give up and quit. I'm wondering if you agree. And if so, what kinds of what kinds of steps, what kinds of action have you taken to make sure that actually you don't quit?
00:29:12 · Gabe Stengel
[00:29:12] S2: Yeah. So there's actually... I think Jack Altman Altman had a great tweet about this, which was at the... In the pre seed world before product market fit, the limited finite resource is not money. It's a founder's willpower. Because especially those early days before there's people saying, we love your product. We love what you're building. Like, you were just taking a beating every day going out there painting this vision and being told, you're an idiot. Stop. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. Yeah. And it's really that finite willpower. And I think, you know, the best way to mitigate that is to achieve product market fit and iterate as fast as possible until you can figure something out. I think if you go five years without creating a product that people like, quitting's inevitable. It's really, really hard to just keep marching uphill. It's just sufficient. I think in terms of, like, at this point, now that things are going well, how do I make sure I keep my foot on the gas? I'm just trying to figure it out. I mean, there was a... The... Some of the Benchmark guys did a did a podcast with Patrick O'Shaughnessy. Peter Fenton and Victor, their new partner, and they were talking about how there's three drivers for what founders do. One's generative. Right? You wanna create a new product. The second is competitive. You wanna beat others. You wanna be the richest. You wanna be the best product so on. And the third is like the pleasure instinct. Right? Like you just wanna accumulate material goods and then like enjoy them. And they seem to think that the biggest risk was losing touch with the generative and focusing too much on the on the pleasurable. And and Victor on the podcast who started a really successful game company was talking about how early on in his... And he's a billion times more successful than I am and you. Just just so much more successful. He was talking about how the... His first few years, he he only spent 1% of what he made, and that was to to mitigate him, you know, getting brought into the dark side and and losing focus. And I think as a founder, you have to figure out what are the ways you keep yourself focused and you keep yourself sharp and you keep yourself excited about what you're doing. And What are some of those...
00:31:09 · Ed Elson, Gabe Stengel
[00:31:09] S1: You have any specific strategies that you take to do that? [00:31:12] S2: I pace a lot and listen to, like, EDM music to get excited. I mean, you just have to you have to stay really excited about what you're doing, and that's easy when things are going well. And when things aren't going well, you know, it's good to have a good support system around you and family and friends who care about you and folks you can hang out with and unplug and realize, you know, no one else really gives a shit the way you do. Right? I can think I have the worst meeting, worst day ever. The reality is no one else on earth cares as much as I do. Right? And that's a good thing. That's a benefit for me. That means I can go harder than anyone else possibly could on making this thing a reality, but it also means that I feel the pain more than anyone else too. And it's it's good to be reminded that, you know, no one else feels the pain the way you do. [00:31:54] S1: What is your approach to management at this point? I mean, you're a you're a very young guy, and you've got 16 employees soon to be, I think, 50 is your goal by the end of the year. [00:32:06] S2: 18 now. We had we two people start today. [00:32:09] S1: Yeah. What's been your approach to management? How do you motivate your team, and how do you, I mean, lead?
00:32:09 · Ed Elson, Gabe Stengel
[00:32:09] S1: Yeah. What's been your approach to management? How do you motivate your team, and how do you, I mean, lead? [00:32:17] S2: I'm trying to become a good manager. It... I think it's very hard. You know, everything I'm doing, I'm trying to get better at it. Right now, it feels like I'm an f on everything, technical leadership, you know, managerial leadership, sales, and so on. And I'm just trying to get to, you know, c plus range. And being a manager is a big part of that goal for me. I think right now, I I have really, really smart autonomous folks that I trust. And so I don't have to do that much management. I trust everyone on my team to know how to prioritize and know how to get things done. And so it's eliminated a lot of my management burden. [00:32:51] S1: It sounds like having extremely talented people is why... Is what's making the job easy. [00:32:57] S2: Is... People are everything. I mean, I couldn't... You know, would I rather lose our five biggest customers or our five best people? Five biggest customers hands down right now because the people are who building the product, building all the processes that will allow us to scale. Everything else, you know, ebbs and flows in the near term. The people are who actually are transmitting knowledge from one person to another, building our technology, iterating with high velocity. I mean, I think people are so much more important than I thought going at.
00:32:57 · Gabe Stengel, Ed Elson
[00:32:57] S2: Is... People are everything. I mean, I couldn't... You know, would I rather lose our five biggest customers or our five best people? Five biggest customers hands down right now because the people are who building the product, building all the processes that will allow us to scale. Everything else, you know, ebbs and flows in the near term. The people are who actually are transmitting knowledge from one person to another, building our technology, iterating with high velocity. I mean, I think people are so much more important than I thought going at. [00:33:27] S1: I wanna talk about challenges and how you deal with them. I'm wondering what if if you can point to a specific time building this company that's... You identify as the biggest personal challenge that you faced.