Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
00:37:08 · Christina Cacioppo, Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:37:08] S1: different markets... Mean, a ongoing penetration tester and remediator fixer. We think we can do that for the cloud providers, like in AWS and Azure, like misconfigurations there. Classically, Wizz does that. Wizz will do it for its customers. Wizz's customer base starts at a multi thousand person company. And their price point count starts at a multi thousand person company. We're more thinking about the platform as where are we already embedded with customers? Where are they unlikely to go pay $150,000 for a whiz, but very well could pay 40 or 50 for something suited to them. Thinking through where are we already strong and where are the competitors focused elsewhere, but probably on a more upmarket segment. How has your [00:37:51] S0: personal motivation changed? You set out to build this thing. I remember talking to the first time about this very charming way you built the original product, Billy and Excel first, and this sort of seems very old school. Looking back on it, there's always like the dog that caught the car thing where like [00:38:05] S1: Yep. [00:38:06] S0: Alright, built like this huge software business. Amazing. How has your own motivation evolved or changed through all this? Why keep going?
00:38:06 · Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Christina Cacioppo
[00:38:06] S0: Alright, built like this huge software business. Amazing. How has your own motivation evolved or changed through all this? Why keep going? [00:38:13] S1: It's interesting and challenging and it changes all the time. I really like my job. Sometimes I feel like I'm good at it. Often I feel like I'm bad at it. That's fine. That's in some ways not the point. But it changes and it's different. And when I feel like I've gotten good at it, usually something happens. It just changes and then I feel bad at it again. And I really like that dynamic. In the beginning, I had a lot more of a feeling of People think I can't do this. I think I can and I'm going to show them. And I still have that. Even to the like, you don't think Vanda's gonna be 250,000,000,000? Like, let me show you. I still have it, but think you probably tell there's like less of a dark edge to it. Still a little dark edge, but like there's less of it. It's oh cool. We got here. Now we're just going to see how far we can run-in a way that feels a little bit more like fun and joyful. So my day to day is not always joyful. I don't mean that, but it feels more, oh cool. Let's see how far we can go with this. And I think we can go pretty damn far. Whereas I think in the beginning, it was more like, you don't think I can get off starting line. Let me show you.
00:39:17 · Patrick O'Shaughnessy
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00:40:39 · Christina Cacioppo, Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:40:39] S1: I like go to market more than I ever would have guessed. You get to talk to like personable, friendly people all the time. And I was like a terrible public speaker. I would get the most nervous in front of my own team because I cared the most about what they thought about. And I was like, my god, I'm representing you. I want to do this so well. Exposure therapy was helpful on that one. You're too... You're like, you just do it and you do get better at it. But I think the like thought of being at kickoff or an all company get together in front of a thousand people on a stage. And I think I'd have been like, shit, like, I'm going be bad at that. I think the people around me would have been like, yeah, she'll be bad at that. How much coaching can she get? It's like anything else. It's like, yeah, if you work hard at developing a skill, you tend to get better at it. You just to put in the work. [00:41:24] S0: That one particular- in particular, I'm very interested in that one. It just seems always high leverage. What matters? You've given however many hundreds of these things. What makes one good?
00:41:24 · Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Christina Cacioppo
[00:41:24] S0: That one particular- in particular, I'm very interested in that one. It just seems always high leverage. What matters? You've given however many hundreds of these things. What makes one good? [00:41:33] S1: The trope of like no one remembers what you say, they remember how you felt. It's so annoying, but it is so true. I do have to believe in the content. And if I just get up, I feel like it is content less. I will also feel that way and it will be obvious to everyone. You kind have to figure out your version of it, which for me, I try to put real content in and then also hold in my head, no one's gonna remember any of these that's not the... So much more. Yeah. [00:41:57] S0: And the key to good heart is what? [00:41:59] S1: Believing in it yourself. Authenticity. One on one on a stage. People are pretty good at reading one another. When you feel like the person you're talking to is like going through the motions or doesn't really feel like it or is misleading you, maybe also misleading themselves. People can tell. They can't entirely articulate what's happening. Something seems off versus someone who is authentically into it. Even if they're into something kooky, ad just comes off. [00:42:28] S0: What are the big trade offs that you struggle with right now? You can't do everything. You got to make decisions. The stakes are higher than ever. It's easier to build than ever. It seems like a cool time to be doing what you're doing, but there must be big trade offs that you struggle with. What are those
00:42:28 · Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Christina Cacioppo
[00:42:28] S0: What are the big trade offs that you struggle with right now? You can't do everything. You got to make decisions. The stakes are higher than ever. It's easier to build than ever. It seems like a cool time to be doing what you're doing, but there must be big trade offs that you struggle with. What are those [00:42:42] S1: for I rent mean, one conversation have had and have is we have tried over the last year to build in such an agent forward way. [00:42:51] S0: What does agent mean? [00:42:53] S1: I don't know. You get two x revenue multiple if you say agent. It's like three x if you say harness. I have to... I can say harness more. Prompt file, like, minus three x. We've tried to build such a great harness. Yes, that's true, guys. Tried to build such a great harness for our customers. But actually... And not build a bunch of SaaS UI. Oh, you want reporting? We'll have our agent go make charts for you on demand based on all our data. We're not gonna put Tableau inside of Vanta, which is probably what we would have done in 2022, 2021 if we had been building it then. And we believe in this, in like a short term customer outcome sense, but also in a medium to long term, like this is what software will look like. And no one is going be putting Tableau inside their products. [00:43:41] S0: So there's an aspect of this diffusion thing is just scary because maybe the tractor company takes ten years. And in the meantime, you were right, but early and if we're wrong.