00:52:16 · Sofia Puccini, Ruby Justice Thelot
[00:52:16] S1: Yee. I think I know her. I I probably follow her. Yeah. Because she do songs about coding and, like [00:52:21] S0: I mean, there's... I don't know if she's she's... She does some songs about coding per se. I think she's using creative technology as a way to deal with her emotional turmoil. Yeah. But... Yeah. And then another thing that's, like, very impressive to me is, like, the work of Viola He or people who are, like, live coding. [00:52:41] S1: I love Viola. Yeah. Shout out Viola. [00:52:43] S0: Viola. Sorry. And then that's the whole other thing because then you're getting to the age of... Like, the the the era of, performance. Yes. In which case, like, it doesn't only matter that you have the code to make the music. It has to be good. You have to respond to the crowd. [00:52:56] S1: Mhmm. [00:52:57] S0: It has to be much like any DJ. You have to, like, be there, perform, and there's, like, an embodied experience plus, of course, this amazing use of of creative technology. [00:53:08] S1: Yeah. I agree. I've also been, like, very... Yeah. I think performance is what I'm most excited for. It feels like live coding is, like, one hint of, like, where we could be going with performance that could just be, like, truly something, like, new and novel. On the topic of creative technologists, because I've seen, like, companies like Anthropic post roles for creative technologists. Like, what do you think they're looking for? And also, why has it all collapsed into this, like, very generic title that means literally nothing at this point?
00:53:08 · Sofia Puccini, Ruby Justice Thelot
[00:53:08] S1: Yeah. I agree. I've also been, like, very... Yeah. I think performance is what I'm most excited for. It feels like live coding is, like, one hint of, like, where we could be going with performance that could just be, like, truly something, like, new and novel. On the topic of creative technologists, because I've seen, like, companies like Anthropic post roles for creative technologists. Like, what do you think they're looking for? And also, why has it all collapsed into this, like, very generic title that means literally nothing at this point? [00:53:39] S0: Yeah. Like, I don't Imagineer. Why... I mean, a lot of my friends... I mean, the amazing artist, Maya Mann, of course, was part of the Google and Creative Lab. Tina Tard... Targian is also in there. Famously, Trudy Painter was also in there. So these are all, both amazing thinkers, artists, also technologists. I think these companies realized the same thing that Xerox PARC and Bell Labs, realized at the time, which was that the artist opens up the potential and the possibilities for what your tool could be used for. [00:54:16] S1: Yeah. [00:54:18] S0: The artist usually transgresses upon the original design and breaks it open and then says, hey, what if I use this thing for something else? [00:54:25] S1: Yes. [00:54:26] S0: With all due respect to engineers, that ability, that creativity is literally, like, the the the superpower of the artist. [00:54:34] S1: Yeah. Yeah.
00:54:34 · Sofia Puccini, Ruby Justice Thelot
[00:54:34] S1: Yeah. Yeah. [00:54:34] S0: Yeah. So the product manager, the engineer can, like, come up with features on the road map for the next twelve months, however it is, but the artist is gonna come in, break it, and then do something completely different. Mhmm. And my sense, of course, it's a little bit hard to me. Maybe Google has some good internal numbers on this, is that there is a tremendous enterprise value to be made from listening to the creativity of people as they build your tool and as they transgress upon their intended or designed functions. [00:55:02] S1: I saw a post, I think, or a comment today that was talking about how few share of, like, artist types use coding agents [00:55:10] S0: Mhmm. [00:55:11] S1: In general. Like, it... Like, you and I probably do, but if you, like, look at the whole share of artists, it's, like, such a miniscule amount that's exposed. And if... So if you did, like, onboard artists into things like coding tools, then I feel like what they would create would just, like, blow everyone else out of the water. But it's just that they're, like... They have, you know, just some, like, differences in terms of, like, morals or diff... Perceived, you know, moral implications of AI. And I think, like,
00:55:11 · Sofia Puccini, Ruby Justice Thelot
[00:55:11] S1: In general. Like, it... Like, you and I probably do, but if you, like, look at the whole share of artists, it's, like, such a miniscule amount that's exposed. And if... So if you did, like, onboard artists into things like coding tools, then I feel like what they would create would just, like, blow everyone else out of the water. But it's just that they're, like... They have, you know, just some, like, differences in terms of, like, morals or diff... Perceived, you know, moral implications of AI. And I think, like, [00:55:43] S0: if they want to... Like, nineteen sixty, if they wanna paint, they're gonna paint. Like, they're gonna do whatever they wanna do. Right? Yeah. Like, Pollock could have bought a computer and, like like, that that is, I think, always a possibility, but people people are specific and they do things that they want to do. I do think that, like, getting people in front of these tools, showing them the actual potential and and what it can do, I think, would really open up a a a a, like, a big pain of, like, novel creativity. Yeah. But I don't think you can force that upon people.
00:55:43 · Ruby Justice Thelot, Sofia Puccini
[00:55:43] S0: if they want to... Like, nineteen sixty, if they wanna paint, they're gonna paint. Like, they're gonna do whatever they wanna do. Right? Yeah. Like, Pollock could have bought a computer and, like like, that that is, I think, always a possibility, but people people are specific and they do things that they want to do. I do think that, like, getting people in front of these tools, showing them the actual potential and and what it can do, I think, would really open up a a a a, like, a big pain of, like, novel creativity. Yeah. But I don't think you can force that upon people. [00:56:15] S1: Yeah. Can't. It also, I think, is, like... Part of it has to do with... I don't know. I think that I find myself frustrated with, like, big tech companies for not doing creator programs that give more back to creators. Like, in theory... To me, in theory, like, you could... Meta could pay people... Like, YouTube pays, like, what, or what's... What platform does the most? Like, Twitch probably pays the creators the most Mhmm. In terms of, like, revenue percentage. But companies like Instagram should give a lot back more to its users, and I don't know why we don't, like, think about that more. Like, we could just be paying these, like, creators way, way more relative to, like, the profits that are made from social media. [00:57:01] S0: Yeah. I mean, part of what I think they facilitate... I mean I mean, Instagram, like, has, like, a big, I know, creative program. I've seen a few creators, you know, like, as a person who, of course, is online famously. [00:57:14] S1: Mhmm.
00:57:15 · Ruby Justice Thelot
[00:57:15] S0: It's always cool to see the per... A person get that, like, Instagram invite, like, of their summits or whatever. I think they... The job of creative partnerships is very difficult because in part, you're beholden to the KPIs of the organization, and in parts, you're dealing with something that's very intangible. Like, okay. This is a cool project, but, like, what is the actual impact? Yeah. One of my friend... One of my dear friend leads a special project at Anthropic, and I think it's, like, definitely one of things he's always thinking about. Like, okay. I'm gonna collaborate with a cultural institution. I'm gonna collaborate with these artists. I'm gonna collaborate with these designers. Mhmm. But how do I ensure that the value that's being created here is made... Not even clear, because the value is clear to the people who go to the event. Yeah. But how do you make, like, legible to then your executive or your director or VP? That's, like, another thing because they're not at the event. Yeah. And so even if, like, Alexi ended up doing a bunch of really, really cool stuff with Sora, but then, boom, Sora's gone. And so now, like, the program is no longer there. Yeah. So that's always a little bit of a... When you work with corporate programs, you're also beholden to their desire to, like, keep them going. Luckily, we... Think we have great examples in the seats of, like, programs that are somewhat endured and, like, last for a long time. But things are moving so fast that I think also the tools themselves are being wound down. And so I think... Alexa, of course, now works at Luma, also has, like, they also do generative AI. But I think she's had to adapt to go from Sora to maybe Flora, and then from Flora to Luma, and then from Luma to Higgsfield. And, like, it just... There's such a turnover sometimes in the tools that I think it just... The gift knowledge is not only, like, the creative person. It's also a person who's, like, very quick at adapting.