00:27:38 · Anthony Pompliano
[00:27:38] S1: And when you look at '27, is there any sort of headwinds you guys worry about? Crypto policy? You know, we start off conversation about, you know, the the blue wave. Right? They aren't so excited about AI. They aren't so excited about crypto in some cases. There's, you know, these generalizations, but I do think that people are like, hey. Health care stocks should do really well. Right? Are the AI and crypto guys gonna be okay? Yeah. The truth is always kinda like somewhere in between, and the extremes are usually not true. But how do you think about operating a business in really, like, less of one environment versus another? Or just like it's an evolving environment. If you look over the last four or five years, different types of politicians, different policy regimes, different type of regulatory regimes, like, it is changing.
00:28:18 · Michael Tannenbaum
[00:28:18] S0: No. For sure. I mean, I've been in fintech since I joined SoFi in 2014, and that was coming out of what was a very big mortgage crisis. It was the beginning of the student loan, kind of the wave of student loan crisis. And, obviously, SoFi was doing a lot of student loan refinancing. So I've seen a variety of regimes come in and out. And, absolutely, you know, it can... It feels like ping pong in some ways. Right? You go from people that are totally risk on and and pro deregulation to some of the tightest regulation. And I think the lesson that I've gotten from all that is you need to be prepared to to run a business that survives and thrives in any regulatory environment. And Figure has been not only to your point about our website, where we we we lean into the benefits of blockchain, not necessarily blockchain for blockchain's sake. We're not crypto in that way. We're much more focused on using blockchain to power the future of the capital markets. And also from a fintech perspective, we have invested a lot in regulatory infrastructure. We're licensed in all 50 states. We have money transmission license. We have crypto licenses both domestically internationally. So we've got a broker dealer. So we've really invested in that regulatory infrastructure. Our stablecoin, which is called yields and is a little bit like a tokenized money market fund, was actually approved under the Biden administration. So we've definitely been a company that's focused on thriving regardless of the regulatory environment in many ways because of the point you're raising, which is this ping pong nature can really derail you if you if you try to focus on capitalizing on any one particular opportunity versus building a business for the long run. And that's very much what I've been focused on both at SoFi, in between App Brex, which was in the card space and very regulated, and now at Figure.
00:30:09 · Anthony Pompliano
[00:30:09] S1: Talk about the the CBL stuff that you guys are doing. Maybe just describe, like, what is the product? How does it work? And then why are people so excited about
00:30:14 · Michael Tannenbaum
[00:30:14] S0: it? Yeah. So for the crypto backed loan, that's... You know, it's a it's a phenomenal product. Right? I think we've never lost money in in that product because of how quickly Bitcoin in particular or Ethereum, you know, you can liquidate the loan. And that that is a really... That's kind of the power of lending on chain, and that's ultimately that same power we're trying to bring to other asset classes. And so if you kind of extrapolate, well, no one loses money. It's really hard to lose money in a Bitcoin loan because the market's so liquid. Imagine if mortgage could be similar. Right? Where, of course, there's an underlying consumer that may not pay. But if you can, again, go after that collateral and try to make it more liquid, you as a lender can re... Can be repaid if there's enough cushion there. Right? Obviously, it's never gonna be... You can't compare real world assets and and and crypto, but I think you see see where I'm going. And so for Figure, that we're very much focused on the future of the capital markets on chain. Crypto backed loans is a part of that. And we've seen that product be... You know, we... We've started to build out the capital markets infrastructure for that product warehouse lines and and really institutionalize it, which we think as Bitcoin, Ethereum, other crypto assets are more and more a part of the portfolios of the next generation of investors, lending against that will also be really important. So we're very much setting ourselves up for the future and focused on that future of the capital markets on chain, whether it's real world assets or crypto assets. What are you worried about?
00:31:47 · Anthony Pompliano
[00:31:47] S1: What keeps you up at night in terms of the business?
00:31:50 · Michael Tannenbaum
[00:31:50] S0: The... I think for us, the concerns that... I'm always worried about the capital markets in particular. We're a company that focuses on the future of the capital markets, and they can be really volatile. There's been times in my professional career where the capital markets shut down for periods of time, and we focus a lot on how to make sure Figure is a sustainable business. A huge part of the value proposition that we bring to those 500 origination partners is that we're providing liquidity for an asset class that previously didn't. Right? If you think about Fannie Mae, I think is is a great analogy. And in in many ways, what we're offering to our partners is similar to Fannie Mae in that they're getting liquidity and standardized capital markets for an asset. And that's so valuable, and it's most valuable when markets aren't as strong. Right? When markets are really hot, everybody feels like they can sell any loan. But when there's less capital in the market, that's where people are really gonna look to Figure to make sure that we're there and bring that liquidity. And so we've... And so that's what I focus a lot lot on is the downside scenario where the markets aren't as hot and how do we still deliver for partners. And we've done a ton a ton there. For example, one of the big things that we started to do is actually have, investors commit to funding the loans prior to the loans being funded, which is very unique. Right? It's normally like you you you fund a loan, and you go find someone to buy it. But here, we're actually prefunding that and getting the commitments up front increasingly. And we're doing that because we wanna make sure that our partners are always supported, and that just reduces risk in the system. So that's a big part of where we wanna take the marketplace. And you can only do that if you have the standardized asset. Right? No one's gonna say, oh, I'll buy something before it's even created unless they know exactly what that's likely to be. And that's the power of the on chain data and the power of what we've brought to the capital markets.