00:17:04 · Molly O'Shea, Jaimin Rangwalla
[00:17:04] S1: It's a lot about tokens. Token, token, tokens. I think one of the hot topics recently was around Mythos and getting access to those and the tokens around there. So for those who don't understand tokens and the token economy, can you explain that out? [00:17:18] S0: Yeah, I think that basically a token is the unit of thought by any AI model. So anytime you ask it a question, if it comes back with an answer, it has generated tokens, and that is what the answer is that you see. And so the way I think about it is any almost like a unit of intelligence, right? The same way that you would think about any you know, as a human, you think about, I wanna make this decision. I wanna do this action. If we were an agent, each one of those would be tokens. Right? And so the token economy, when people talk about it, is really the proliferation of agents and decisions made by artificial intelligence. And those decisions can actually be quantified in a number of tokens. And so it's like very different than human intelligence, which is hard to quantify a unit of human intelligence, but you're able to quantify a unit of AI intelligence. It's actually very interesting because it's almost causing us to rethink how we're framing the business opportunity for a lot of companies.
00:18:15 · Molly O'Shea
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00:19:52 · Jaimin Rangwalla
[00:19:52] S0: So if you think about your initial chat GPT interaction, you would ask it a question. It would think for some amount of time, depending on the complexity of the question, and then it would come back to you with an answer, or not even a lot of times an answer, maybe it comes back with an intermediate step of, okay, I searched all of X, Y, Z. I did this. Am I on the right track? Do you want me to go more in detail? Do you want me to do less? And it was a lot of human in the loop. An agent now, when you give it a problem, like the amazing part of Opus 4.5 when it launched at the end of last year was that an agent can now spawn its own agents and that can increase the depth of work, the time of work, and the quality of the work. And so all of those things, that was a huge model unlock. Agents launching agents, I think, is one of the most underappreciated unlocks that has happened because you can give an agent a project now and you can just go away. And you can come back and it has done, if not all of it, really, really far along. And the amazing thing is you can also, when you instruct it and prompt it initially, you can say, go do this, launch as many agents as you want, and then launch another 10 agents to check all of these agents' work. So not only like it's so collaborative and and iterative now where the human is almost out of the loop. And if you think about it, the human was almost a limiting factor in how much work the agents could do because before, one agent or one chatbot would interact with one human, but it would always constantly stop. A third of the way it stops to check-in and be like, did I do this right? Do want me to do this again? And then two thirds of the way it stops. So the human is still limiting how much work that can be done. Now the human just has to prompt it, and all of the work gets done on its own. And now what we're doing, I use Claude too, I don't just ask it one prompt or one problem. I go and say, Okay, I want this done. And I open a new one, and say, I want this done. And I open a new one, I want this done. And so they're all working concurrently, and so you're able to launch agents, and then you're able to launch multiple pools of agents that also launch multiple agents below. And so to me, it's just the sheer power of exponential growth of the number of agents and the amount of work that's being done.
00:21:51 · Molly O'Shea
[00:21:51] S1: Yeah, we definitely saw that in the Open Claw slide. That was crazy. So what was their growth rate?
00:21:58 · Jaimin Rangwalla
[00:21:58] S0: So I think the Open Claw phenomenon is actually really interesting. I think most people maybe don't understand and appreciate it. What OpenCLaw is, it is a form of a harness. Harness is like the fancy word for how a person interacts with a model. Before, you're interacting with a model with just the ChatGPT interface. And then even if you have a terminal, maybe you're interacting in the clawed code terminal. But now a harness allows you to interact. You can be on another computer just typing to your claw and having it control a computer in a different location or a virtual computer and actually taking actions on your behalf. You can WhatsApp message it and say, you know, while I'm in the office, like we have analysts that are using it and testing it for us. He'll have his home open call. He'll message it and say, oh, book me a reservation on Friday at this restaurant, send the calendar invite to Jaemon, and then also make sure that we have a car service set up to take us there and back, and then send him the confirmation email and make a calendar appointment, do all that stuff. It is able to do all of that in the background, and it'll just come back to you with a message and say, okay, I did this and here it is. And so it's almost like the ability to interact has changed with the clause setup. And so now you can use a terminal to interact. You can have it in your pocket like the phone. We have a slide in our deck that just talks about the phone's almost like a remote now. It's a remote for your agents. Which agents do you have working on what? Which agents do you have doing this for you? And you can also launch multiple agents. And so I think that OpenClaw, you're seeing the trajectory, just the number of people that are using it and programming for it and trying to figure out how to incorporate it. Even in China, every one of the big internet companies has their own claw concept. ByteDance has one, Tencent has one, Alibaba has one. It's amazing how quick this has taken off, I don't think people fully appreciate it. But to me, it's just an intermittent state. I don't think that you're going to have it where you've got to go home, you've to hook up all these connections to your cloud, because today you still have to give it access to Gmail and this and that. There's going to be a big opportunity for someone to just say, Oh, here's your phone.
00:23:57 · Jaimin Rangwalla, Molly O'Shea
Here's the app, this is your super app. This now allows you to connect to everything that you have, and you can just ask this app questions and it is going to be the super app for you. [00:24:06] S1: Did you see the clip of Nat Freeman at Stripe sessions? [00:24:10] S0: I did not. [00:24:12] S1: So, he has Open Claw deployed on his phone, think maybe his laptop too, and so his Open Claw saw that he was dehydrated, and so it was like, Oh, go grab a glass of water. So he went to the kitchen, he grabbed a glass of water, he drank it, or maybe it was a bottle, and Open Claw took a picture of him and goes, nice job. And then he was also driving in his car, and they were like, you need magnesium. And so the car then rerouted to Whole Foods to get them magnesium. Was pretty crazy. [00:24:44] S0: Yeah, I mean, we're just at the beginning of what's going to be possible. [00:24:49] S1: So you mentioned that memory per person is exploding. Can you talk through the TAM of that? Yeah.