The Physics of Startups
00:05:02 · S0, Rob Snyder
[00:05:02] S0: Okay, perfect. Yeah, for for me, it's like it takes weird not to buy and it holds it to a higher standard. Like it it it requires that um you know I push, I I don't accept something that is uh that I can't explain um why they wouldn't buy, but it's like, oh, is there something that requires that you know you talk about that sometimes as there's a wall, like they're about to there's something, there's a there's something imminent um which makes it mandatory, which is you know, uh to me a little bit stronger than uh than weird not to buy, but similar concept. So good intuition from the commenter. Um let's hit cold out uh a comment from D. [00:05:39] S1: Well, well, so this this one also has the assumption that like weird not to buy or mandatory to buy means you must be in dire straits. And that's actually not the case. That's not that's not a that's a common uh assumption here, but there are many ways. So think about premium products, like working with uh working with the best growth person possible, right? Like you're not in dire straits, then you're probably actually growing fast, but for that kind of person, it is it is unacceptable to not be working with the best. And so, um, and so yeah, that the that's uh look if if people were in dire straits, there would be no if it if this required people to be in dire straits, this couldn't explain premium products. [00:06:32] S0: Yeah, like uh buying a Rolex. Um like it you're there's no dire strait. Like my definition if you can afford a Rolex.
00:06:32 · S0, Rob Snyder
[00:06:32] S0: Yeah, like uh buying a Rolex. Um like it you're there's no dire strait. Like my definition if you can afford a Rolex. [00:06:40] S1: Um No, but like people but but there is but there is pull behind it, right? There is there's pull behind that, and it needs to be able to explain both. And so it's a very common thing to basically be like, okay, pull means um you're like you are about to run out of money, right? And your business is about to go under and everything is broken, and it's like, no, that's not that's actually not the the case. [00:07:04] S0: Yeah, and the yeah, the so the project with uh a premium might be um give it a certain appearance, achieve something that is outsi outsized. Um it's like something about differentiating yourself, maybe? I don't know. I'm just like I'm reading. [00:07:21] S1: Oh, it's gonna it's gonna it's depending on the depending on the context. Depending on the context. Um and so um so so like I'm just thinking like premium cologne is like I don't want anybody to smell better than me or yeah or like me at all. Or like me at all. Right. And so it's like it's unacceptable for me to not to not be on the leading edge of this thing, right? Like there's there's other identity forms here of like people who are at the leading edge of like technology. You know, they have pulled for for the the new thing because it's it's it is um look, it's basically like physically, it's it's like physically impossible for them to not be trying the new thing.
00:08:11 · S0
[00:08:11] S0: Yeah, yeah. That would be an interesting one to go deeper on pre more premium product uh products. I know you you tend to think on the kind of fringes and the extremes. That would be a cool one to investigate sometime. Um let's get to this one's from DJ Just One. One thank you for having a handle that I can pronounce. Um and this one is in the cold outbound uh episode. Uh and DJ writes, uh, you helped us get to an 85% close rate close rate on calls, but our bottleneck is the pipeline, and the outbound game has changed with AI. We've tried the be interesting thing, and later on they they commented that like they took the approach that's similar to the um Snoop Dogg invested in us. Apparently they have an interesting investor. Um, and so they they write, we've tried the be interesting thing, but just not cracking it. Uh two questions here. Um, one is in your perspective, Rob, how has AI changed outbound uh outbound and pipeline? Um, and then what do you say to people when it's like it's just not working? Like they're they're trying to follow your advice and and they're having a hard time. Um yeah, that and this um as a sorry, quick recap. This episode on Cold Outbound discussed the hierarchy of interestingness. It was kind of like this is where you uh you laid that out. So yeah, Rob, take it away.
00:09:29 · Rob Snyder
[00:09:29] S1: Yeah, I mean there's um so I I think you might there's a couple things it could be based on this. Think thing one is just like the thing you think is interesting is actually not interesting um to your target customer. And that could that could be the case. Um, and so I I I still see very interesting messages getting very high response rates. And so I don't think much has changed there. That said, um, I actually don't think AI is behind it. I think just like, for example, LinkedIn outreach is getting like it has gone very mainstream, and so a lot of people just I have like 300 LinkedIn connection requests that I have not answered. And then so way more people are getting in the LinkedIn jail. And so yeah, it's just it's um so so I think that might might be part of it. Uh one other thing I'd say is um there sometimes outbound just might not work super well for you for whatever reason, um, just like the kind of interesting style outbound for your target market or something, there are a bunch of other things to consider. Can you cold call? Can you go to events? Can you host events? There are all these other other ways. Um I like founder magic because it often works quite well in the early days, but the point is for you to figure out what poll is repeatedly. And once you know what poll is repeatedly, then you figure out what the most effective way to find those people is. That's the toll booth thing, which is how do we put a toll booth in the situation when they would be weird not to buy? So that it so when they hit that situation, it's weird if they don't talk to us. And and so if you have an 85% close rate, you know, hopefully, what poll it is, which means you should be figuring out some way to own that situation.
00:11:31 · S0, Rob Snyder
[00:11:31] S0: Yeah. That's that's awesome. And uh congratulations to DJ on 85% close rate. That's uh that's super impressive. Um all right, let's hit um maybe one or two or a couple more. One is uh Did we hit the workday one? Yeah, let's hit the workday one. All right. This one is from uh Syed, and then that it continues. Um it's from uh it's a comment on uh your kind of like your longer lecture, notes on the physics of startups. Umed writes. Uh I would be so willing to understand the pull behind workday. It's the bane of everyone's existence, but we still can't get seem to get rid of it, neither employers nor candidates. [00:12:12] S1: Um and you know, Rob, maybe um how would you how would you characterize workday is an HR information system, HRIS. [00:12:20] S0: Yeah.
00:12:20 · S0, Rob Snyder
[00:12:20] S0: Yeah. [00:12:21] S1: That um is used in basically all big companies. Perfect. And so, yeah, and and the experience is awful for everyone. And that doesn't matter. That's totally irrelevant. I I have tried to build an HR system with uh uh to to like go and attack this market with under the theory that the user experience that everybody complained about was relevant. It isn't because what matters when you're buying an HR system is it has to work for all the relevant laws and all the relevant jurisdictions and all the places for everything that could possibly change. That's what matters, and that's how they make the purchase decision on it. There is a buyer who decides based on something like that, a checklist of things, but it basically is like, okay, cool. Um New York City is gonna pass this new stupid law, but we also need to our HR system to be able to reflect that so we can automatically comply with it and da-da-da-da-da. Right. And that happens everywhere. And that and each business requires a ton of customization to all of these kinds of things. And that is what causes the purchase, right? Like the most important thing with an HR information system is like is it is it gonna make sure we're doing things legally? Do we not get thrown in jail? User experience is irrelevant.