The Billboard Insider Podcast
00:00:00 · Dave Westburg, Kym Frank
[00:00:00] S0: Hi. I'm Dave Westburg, and you're listening to the Billboard Insider Podcast where I interview industry leaders about trends impacting The US out of home advertising business. This podcast is sponsored by Adomni. Adomni, the easy way to sell billboards online. Out of home in your hands. Today's guest is Kym Frank, president of Geopath, the nonprofit agency which provides measurement, impressions, and audience data to out of home advertising companies, advertisers, and agencies. Kym has been president of Geopath since 2015. Prior to joining Geopath, she was a senior executive at several media research firms. Kym is a tireless advocate for the out of home industry via her posts on the Geopath blog and on social media. She's coming to us from Times Square. Geopath's in the middle of all of the fascinating digital signage, so if you hear background noise, that's why. And Kym is also an improv comic. Welcome to show, Kym. [00:00:58] S1: Thanks so much, Dave. Super excited to be here. [00:01:00] S0: Kym, you've got an interesting background in that you didn't grow up in the on home industry, and you kind of came to the industry from a number of different sectors. How has that helped?
00:01:00 · Dave Westburg, Kym Frank
[00:01:00] S0: Kym, you've got an interesting background in that you didn't grow up in the on home industry, and you kind of came to the industry from a number of different sectors. How has that helped? [00:01:11] S1: Yeah. It's been kind of an exciting career. I have always been focused in media research over the last couple of decades. You know, I grew up a bit of a math geek, and so it was a really great fit for me. But throughout my research career, I've worn quite a number of hats. I worked in TV on the publisher side. I did cross channel research at a large global agency. I worked at a data vendor startup. Believe it or not, I even worked at a big Wall Street consulting firm [00:01:42] S0: Oh my. [00:01:42] S1: For a time. [00:01:43] S0: Oh my. [00:01:44] S1: So I have been able to really see the media landscape across a number of platforms and from all different angles. Working at Geopath has been my first venture into the out of home industry. Mhmm. So I think it's been really exciting because I'm able to, you know, bring an understanding of what buyers are looking for. I have an understanding of what sellers need to... You know, like, what tools sellers need to have in their hands in order to really succeed. I have a view of what works in other channels and doesn't work in other channels.
00:01:44 · Kym Frank, Dave Westburg
[00:01:44] S1: So I have been able to really see the media landscape across a number of platforms and from all different angles. Working at Geopath has been my first venture into the out of home industry. Mhmm. So I think it's been really exciting because I'm able to, you know, bring an understanding of what buyers are looking for. I have an understanding of what sellers need to... You know, like, what tools sellers need to have in their hands in order to really succeed. I have a view of what works in other channels and doesn't work in other channels. [00:02:13] S0: Kym, can we expand on that? You've said before that we in the out of home industry, we're sometimes a little insular. That's my take. But we need to pay attention to what happens in other media channels in order to learn from the mistakes others make. Can you expand on that?
00:02:13 · Dave Westburg, Kym Frank
[00:02:13] S0: Kym, can we expand on that? You've said before that we in the out of home industry, we're sometimes a little insular. That's my take. But we need to pay attention to what happens in other media channels in order to learn from the mistakes others make. Can you expand on that? [00:02:29] S1: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. In fact, a lot of the first phone calls that I made when I took on this role was to the heads of research at other media channels, you know, leaders in the other media channel space, and said, what can we learn from the mistakes made in your channel? I mean, if you take what's happening in online, for example, you know, publishers were providing their own metrics. There wasn't any transparency. This really opened the door for issues with bots and frauds and even, you know, publishers overstating their own deliveries. You know, I think it's also really challenging, not even just in the online space, but a number of different media channels for buyers to sync up buys across different publishers. And I think now, you know, the pendulum swinging in online, and and there's a significant amount of distrust in the channel because of what's happening. [00:03:15] S0: I I recall the case. Was it The Guardian? There was one out of home buyer that found that 70% of its online buy was being taken by the middlemen. And the the the middle players in the system, only 30% of the money was actually getting to an ad buy. [00:03:32] S1: For sure. And, you know, it it causes a lot of distrust. [00:03:36] S0: Yes.
00:03:36 · Dave Westburg, Kym Frank
[00:03:36] S0: Yes. [00:03:37] S1: You know, advertisers are really examining what they're investing their money in now. I think we've heard people like Marc Pritchard talk about, you know, what was I really getting out of a banner ad? Mhmm. Was anybody feeling good about my brand after a pop up appeared on a website, or should we really start focusing again on building brand equity through our channels? And I I think that's one of the things that's so exciting about the out of home industry space for me is that we really can do that, and we're really great at [00:04:08] S0: it. Mhmm. [00:04:09] S1: You know, when out of home is done well and done with passion and purpose, it's one of the most beautiful things. [00:04:16] S0: Mhmm. [00:04:17] S1: Can really bring a smile to your face. [00:04:18] S0: Kym, you've got some experience on the TV, on the broadcasting side of things. What can we learn from the broadcasting experience?
00:04:18 · Dave Westburg, Kym Frank
[00:04:18] S0: Kym, you've got some experience on the TV, on the broadcasting side of things. What can we learn from the broadcasting experience? [00:04:27] S1: Yeah. Lots of things. I think broadcast... And I I was working in the channel at the time when digital really started to become a real challenge for broadcast. There was a lot of, I think, sticking the head in the sand going on in the channel and published studies that said... And I still see these now. Published studies that say that, no. TV is doing fine. TV is doing great. And you'll see this a lot now where there's studies that say things like, you know, cord cutting isn't really an issue or a problem. And I don't think that hiding from a problem that's really facing the industry did it any good. Right. They certainly ran off and try... Everybody tried to make their own apps at the time. You know, if you wanted to watch content, you could download the ABC app or the NBC app or the Fox app. And then meanwhile, Netflix popped up, and all of these big networks gave Netflix content. You know, my understanding is that was done in a vacuum without any research behind it. They were just very eager to be the first to be on the platform. And, essentially, they funded their biggest competitor today. You know, it it was just making big decisions without doing the research ahead of times, I think, was a big challenge for them. [00:05:45] S0: Kym, you've been at Geopath for three years since 2015. The organization has changed significantly since you've been in charge. Can you explain some of the changes?