Y Combinator Startup Podcast
00:40:54 · Alex Danilowicz, Aaron Epstein
[00:40:54] S1: Yeah. And social proof is so important. Right? That's always why, typically, you see logos above the fold. I think founders should always consider, though, who they're using as social proof. Like, just as an example, I see investors and founders, and I think, okay. This is for investors and founders. Mhmm. Which, you know, kinda makes sense. Like, they they are busy people, which have lots of emails. But immediately, I just... Like, even with both investors on this side, on the left hand side, I think, oh, wait a second. Is this just an inbox for VCs? [00:41:24] S0: Yeah. Maybe it is that they're targeting founders and VCs. I'm not sure. Or is it for general consumers? They say for busy people. So maybe this is, like, a prosumer, superhuman kind of thing, then writes in your style. Okay. This is cool because, you know, it's showing that it's going through and, and making edits, that actually match the style. Like, that view right there That's awesome. Is cool. [00:41:45] S1: This is really... This is, like, kinda the animation that I was talking about. Something that you could design in Magic Patterns, by the way. But this is really, really neat, where I I totally get what it's doing here. [00:41:55] S0: And handle your inbox from iMessage. Again, we got more of these tabs. It started at the third one down there. So there was review and approve. But, yeah, same same as above.
00:41:55 · Aaron Epstein, Alex Danilowicz
[00:41:55] S0: And handle your inbox from iMessage. Again, we got more of these tabs. It started at the third one down there. So there was review and approve. But, yeah, same same as above. [00:42:07] S1: That's cool too, though. It's it's interesting to me. Like, this is kinda what's resonating with me. Right? Like, oh, my... You know, there's so many problems with you. You have so many inboxes, whether it's text messages, what app, your Gmail, your Slack, and it's kinda consolidating that. Like, this is really resonating, and, yeah, it would be cool if that was... Maybe that should be pushed to the top if users are appreciating that. [00:42:27] S0: Yeah. I mean, that's a problem I have. Too many inboxes. And so that would have resonated with me to the extent that I am both a founder and a investor that would be interested in this. [00:42:36] S1: One more thing that I think is great is actually just how long this landing page is. I learned this from the post hoc guys, actually. So the post hoc folks had a massive footer to communicate that they were, you know, a big company. Right? And so I always encourage folks to think about, like, what is kind of the meta thing that's being communicated? And just by the sheer fact that it's a really long landing page, I think, oh, this company's been around a while.
00:42:36 · Alex Danilowicz, Aaron Epstein
[00:42:36] S1: One more thing that I think is great is actually just how long this landing page is. I learned this from the post hoc guys, actually. So the post hoc folks had a massive footer to communicate that they were, you know, a big company. Right? And so I always encourage folks to think about, like, what is kind of the meta thing that's being communicated? And just by the sheer fact that it's a really long landing page, I think, oh, this company's been around a while. [00:43:01] S0: Yeah. It does a good job of spacing down the page, calling out the main points that it wants to hit on, trying to build trust. And it looks very nicely professionally designed, which helps build that trust as well, which is really important. So overall, I think this this is really well done. Great. Thank you, Slashy. As someone who comes from a a front end engineering background, how did you get better at design and improving your design taste? [00:43:26] S1: So one thing I I try to do is look at beautiful things. Like, as an example, there's a Matisse exhibit here in San Francisco, or just kinda consuming things that you enjoy aesthetically. A great book to read is like the design of everyday things. And again, always considering the human and the user. I think there's this big misconception in Silicon Valley that design is pixel perfect border radius. And it's not. It's thinking through the user experience. And, of course, having high fidelity UI, that's that's beautiful. Right? But...
00:43:26 · Alex Danilowicz, Aaron Epstein
[00:43:26] S1: So one thing I I try to do is look at beautiful things. Like, as an example, there's a Matisse exhibit here in San Francisco, or just kinda consuming things that you enjoy aesthetically. A great book to read is like the design of everyday things. And again, always considering the human and the user. I think there's this big misconception in Silicon Valley that design is pixel perfect border radius. And it's not. It's thinking through the user experience. And, of course, having high fidelity UI, that's that's beautiful. Right? But... [00:43:59] S0: Yep. And how do you do that? What are some things that you do maybe in your day to day as you're building Magic Patterns and leading the company as well that you do to try to put the user front and center and and always keep that voice of the user in [00:44:12] S1: your head? You know what? Like, a couple things that we do is everyone in our company does customer support. So every single person is in the support inbox talking to users every single day, seeing their frustrations when they can't find the share button because we have two CTAs that are the exact same color. Two primary buttons. Right? And the next thing you know, because the engineer's there, they're going ahead and and fixing it because they experienced the user problem firsthand. And also just having a very high bar. Right? Where if something looks off and it just feels off, we encourage all of our team to go ahead and tackle that. Spend time on the extra 20%. Don't just have the vibe coded output and not take it to the next level.
00:44:12 · Alex Danilowicz, Aaron Epstein
[00:44:12] S1: your head? You know what? Like, a couple things that we do is everyone in our company does customer support. So every single person is in the support inbox talking to users every single day, seeing their frustrations when they can't find the share button because we have two CTAs that are the exact same color. Two primary buttons. Right? And the next thing you know, because the engineer's there, they're going ahead and and fixing it because they experienced the user problem firsthand. And also just having a very high bar. Right? Where if something looks off and it just feels off, we encourage all of our team to go ahead and tackle that. Spend time on the extra 20%. Don't just have the vibe coded output and not take it to the next level. [00:45:00] S0: And how do you balance that? Because, obviously, doing that sounds great. The trade offs are now it's gonna take longer to ship something. How do you balance the speed of shipping quickly with actually, you know, going above and beyond and and making something that that is is actually excellent rather than the thing that was just okay?
00:45:00 · Aaron Epstein, Alex Danilowicz
[00:45:00] S0: And how do you balance that? Because, obviously, doing that sounds great. The trade offs are now it's gonna take longer to ship something. How do you balance the speed of shipping quickly with actually, you know, going above and beyond and and making something that that is is actually excellent rather than the thing that was just okay? [00:45:17] S1: Yeah. Well, you have to... It's all about trade offs. Right? And if you don't do that, you might have tons of users that are on your site, and then they're leaving. They're not understanding it. Their their workflow is blocked. Right? And so you have to have faith that it is worth it. And for us, we have tremendous faith that it is worth it. That it is important to think through and to take your time doing something. And I think it's also like people love saying, if it's well designed, it must have taken so long to ship, and they're so slow. I can practice not not really. You can still be really fast, especially considering how much everything is sped up when it comes to writing code. [00:46:00] S0: Yeah. It's actually really interesting. Those trade offs don't have to exist anymore. Historically, they had to exist. What's next for Magic Patterns? What's what's next on the road map for you, and and where do you think design is going from here?