The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
00:46:05 · Harry Stebbings, Alan Chang
[00:46:05] S2: With the success that you've had, dude, what have been your biggest reflections on how you think about your relationship to money? [00:46:12] S0: For me, obviously, money is great. But beyond levels of personal consumption, and I personally don't spend that much money, I think it becomes a means to an end. [00:46:20] S2: Can I be blunt and ask you, what is that level? And this is for me. I'm not sure what that is. I don't wanna be on the hedonic treadmill, but I do think about that. [00:46:30] S0: Honestly, I think anything... I'd say number's probably like five. Five, I think, is enough. [00:46:34] S2: Do you remember when you made your first real money? [00:46:37] S0: I do remember. Yeah. [00:46:38] S2: How did it feel? [00:46:39] S0: It felt surreal. My Revolut account went from no money and it... 1,000 x overnight. [00:46:46] S2: Did you sell much of your Revolut? [00:46:48] S0: No. Only for personal consumption. I'm still very bullish in the company. [00:46:52] S2: How big can Revolut be? I often don't say publicly. It's like easily a $250,000,000,000 business without The US. With The US, it's a $500,000,000,000 business. [00:47:02] S0: I think of a trillion dollar company. [00:47:04] S2: Do you think he'll be able to crack The US? [00:47:06] S0: If someone's gonna do it, it's Nikolay. [00:47:08] S2: At what price would you start to sell? Trillion. What does no one know about having money that people should know about having money? [00:47:17] S0: I think it buys you time. Actually, it buys you quite a bit time back.
00:47:17 · Alan Chang, Harry Stebbings
[00:47:17] S0: I think it buys you time. Actually, it buys you quite a bit time back. [00:47:22] S2: Where do you spend to save time? [00:47:24] S0: I think having an assistant helps you save a lot of time. Like, so you don't have to do... Waste a lot of time doing a lot of lectures, travel. I think flying a coach just kills your... I think you just waste two days. I think it's worth flying business. Know, you can work in a plane and not feel terrible, you know, the day after. Right? You know, traveling better, eating better, and not wasting time on things outside of business. You could buy buy a lot of time back. [00:47:50] S2: Does it change your relationship, personal relationships? [00:47:53] S0: Maybe for the better, right? So you stop thinking about price tags, which is good, right? You just go wherever you want, eat wherever you want. So I think it does help in a positive way. But yeah, but also then you need to think like who your friends truly are. Right? [00:48:07] S2: Have you ever had that question? [00:48:09] S0: Luckily, my existing friends have not changed how they treat me after some success. But I have had a love, long time from, you know, people I went to school with. [00:48:20] S2: Dude, I wanna ask you a quick fire answer. I say a short statement. You give me your immediate thoughts. Sure. So what investor do you not have that you would most like to have? [00:48:29] S0: One person. You. Dude,
00:48:29 · Alan Chang, Harry Stebbings
[00:48:29] S0: One person. You. Dude, [00:48:33] S2: do you know what's really hard about what I do? Yeah. It's that I'm friends with the greatest founders. Yeah. And in a lot of cases, like, you've invested in Project Europe, and I have the joys of, like, knowing you, and it really is a joy. Yeah. And I'm like, what the fuck? Why am I not invested in these companies? I have this with, Matty at eleven Labs. Yeah. And I'm just like, oh. It almost happened too early for me. Does that make sense? It's like I became friends with these people and had the chance to invest Yeah. When I was a kid [00:49:00] S0: Yeah. [00:49:01] S2: And I didn't know what I was doing. Yeah. And had I had that now, it would have been very different. But it is life. Rachne's in order of importance. Luck, talent, and timing. [00:49:11] S0: I think timing, talent, luck. [00:49:14] S2: Why timing first?
00:49:14 · Harry Stebbings, Alan Chang
[00:49:14] S2: Why timing first? [00:49:15] S0: I think if you get the timing wrong, even if you're the best team in the world, you're not gonna make it. For example, I don't think Fuse could have been built ten years ago. I think FUSE is only possible because of requirements of change, right? Because the renewable penetration in the grid is so high, and the skills you need to, the ability to manage renewables is so different to how we used to generate and consume power. If you look at Revolut, Revolut is only possible because of the EMI license. And the EMI license was created just a couple years before Revolut was founded. I don't think Revolut would be impossible, you know, ten years before, you know, 2014. So I think, I do think timing matters. And then the second thing is talent. Like, I think these are two prerequisites. So if you have good timing, if you have good talent, I think luck will also come. [00:50:01] S2: What's been the hardest decision you've made in your career? [00:50:04] S0: Probably leaving Revolut. [00:50:06] S2: Did you wanna stay to IPO? [00:50:07] S0: I do. I do. Like, ultimately, it's... [00:50:10] S2: Do you remember telling Nick? [00:50:12] S0: I remember. [00:50:12] S2: Can you just tell me that? [00:50:14] S0: It was a very, very hard moment. And he asked me, are you sure? Three times. And I said, I'm sure. Three times. [00:50:23] S2: Where were you? What time of day was it? How did you say?
00:50:23 · Harry Stebbings, Alan Chang
[00:50:23] S2: Where were you? What time of day was it? How did you say? [00:50:26] S0: Yeah. I think it was a Friday afternoon. It was actually the same meeting main... Meeting room you did a podcast with Nick. Wow. Yeah. It was that room. [00:50:33] S2: What did he say? Because respectfully, a lot of people have come and gone from Revolut. Yeah. But you were his guy. Was he visibly shocked? [00:50:41] S0: I don't know. He he he has this emotionless reaction. Yeah. He just ask me, are you sure? [00:50:48] S2: Did he invest in Fuse? [00:50:50] S0: Yes. In the most recent round. [00:50:52] S2: In the most recent round? Yeah. Is it still open? I I can't believe it. I I said this to Massey the other day. Said, I can't believe we're still not invested. We... I'm just paying any price. I'm just pissed off. Yeah. That's amazing. What's... You said downstairs, being a CEO is not all it's cracked up to be. Why is it not all it's cracked up to be being CEO? [00:51:13] S0: I mean, I think there are pros and cons. I think the pros... Like, at Revolut, I I can basically get to pick the role I wanted, right, the problems I wanted to solve. But now I I give that opportunity to other leaders within the company. That means, by definition, I I don't get to choose the things I do. [00:51:29] S2: What are you not doing today that you would most like to be doing? [00:51:32] S0: I would love to go much deeper on on engineering, on hardware, like going to like very low level details. [00:51:39] S2: How big is the biggest incumbent in this space?
00:51:39 · Harry Stebbings, Alan Chang
[00:51:39] S2: How big is the biggest incumbent in this space? [00:51:42] S0: So you have the power incumbents, and then you have the big oil majors, right, incumbents. If you look at big oil majors, like Shell, they make a billion revenue a day, approximately. [00:51:53] S2: How big can FUSE be? I think we [00:51:56] S0: could be bigger than Shell. [00:51:57] S2: How much is Shell worth? [00:51:58] S0: I think worth just north of $300,000,000,000. They're listed on the London Stock Exchange, so there's a, I think, discount. [00:52:05] S2: How the fuck does that... I'm sorry. They do a billion in revenue a day Yeah. And they're worth less than their annual revenue then. [00:52:12] S0: Yeah. I think if if they were listed in The US, they'd probably be worth more. [00:52:15] S2: Would you list in The US? [00:52:16] S0: If we ever list, I [00:52:17] S2: think it would be The US. Yeah. Would you list? [00:52:20] S0: I personally don't see a need to. There's a lot of liquidity in the private markets. And obviously, there's additional overhead being a listed company. Like like, the only reason I see listing as a as a real need is if the liquidity dries up in the private markets. [00:52:34] S2: Do you let team members sell? [00:52:36] S0: Yeah. [00:52:36] S2: Revolut was very tight on any secondary sales. It was like incredibly guarded subject. Are you the same or are you a little bit looser?