The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
00:33:48 · Alan Chang, Harry Stebbings
[00:33:48] S0: Yeah. We've never given a head of position to anyone we've hired. We've only given to it based based on performance. [00:33:55] S2: In in terms of internal promotion? Yes. Anyone salary, where it's like, hey, listen, I'm being paid x at my current job. I need that to make this worth my time. [00:34:05] S0: Actually, for us, their expectations don't really matter. It's about their performance. Either interview performance or performance in the company. And we will pay you top of market if you perform very well. [00:34:16] S2: What non obvious behavior do you not tolerate even if they're really high performers? [00:34:21] S0: So I remember back was when I was at Revolut. I was explaining to Nick... I I I actually forgot what what what it was, but, you know, I failed at something. And I was ex... Trying to explain to him why I failed. Then Nick sent me this article. Alright. It was about jobs, explaining the difference between a a janitor and a VP. So the story goes, if the janitor fails to collect the trash because the locks in the office was changed, jobs will say, Okay, that's irritating, but that's acceptable because you're the janitor. Somewhere between a janitor and a VP, reasons stop mattering. So every single time when one of the leaders at Fuse explains to me why they failed and they couldn't couldn't hit a certain goal, I sent them this article.
00:34:21 · Alan Chang, Harry Stebbings
[00:34:21] S0: So I remember back was when I was at Revolut. I was explaining to Nick... I I I actually forgot what what what it was, but, you know, I failed at something. And I was ex... Trying to explain to him why I failed. Then Nick sent me this article. Alright. It was about jobs, explaining the difference between a a janitor and a VP. So the story goes, if the janitor fails to collect the trash because the locks in the office was changed, jobs will say, Okay, that's irritating, but that's acceptable because you're the janitor. Somewhere between a janitor and a VP, reasons stop mattering. So every single time when one of the leaders at Fuse explains to me why they failed and they couldn't couldn't hit a certain goal, I sent them this article. [00:35:01] S2: So can you just help me understand what the takeaway from that is? It's like, you know what? It doesn't fucking matter why you failed. The point is you failed in the expansion. Correct. What do you take from that? Like, excuses don't matter? [00:35:12] S0: Excuses don't matter. If you're a leader of an area in the company, excuses don't matter. If you succeed, you get all the praise. If you fail, you get all the blame. And it does not matter why you failed. [00:35:22] S2: Do worry that you're ever too harsh on people? I get told I am. I don't care about your excuses. I care about outcomes. And people say that I'm too harsh. I'm too direct. Do you worry? [00:35:32] S0: I don't care what they think.
00:35:32 · Alan Chang, Harry Stebbings
[00:35:32] S0: I don't care what they think. [00:35:34] S2: And you don't worry about them leaving? Because, like, for my best performers, for your use, when Nick at Revolut is saying that to you, Nick should be terrified that you leave. You're a core part of that business. I I want to protect you and look after you. And when you say, dude, there's a lot of reasons why, I don't know, Poland didn't work in the expansion and da da da da. Okay, Alan. Like, you're my guy. I'm here for you, and thank you for explaining that to me. I want to protect my best performers. [00:36:00] S0: Well, I would say I don't think that's protecting. Right? That's just hiding, you know, information from your best performers. Right? Ultimately, your best performers, like, they're they're smart. They're hardworking. They're not dumb. Right? And initially, I took that feedback to HOT, and I was resisting it at first. I thought it was unfair, right? But then I thought more about it, and it made me a better person, right? So I thank him for sending me the article. What I found is usually top performers internalize as negative feedback very well. They take negative feedback too hot, and they find ways to improve. If there are people who don't take negative feedback well, I don't think they're top performers. [00:36:35] S2: What was the bit of feedback that you found most hard to take?
00:36:35 · Harry Stebbings, Alan Chang
[00:36:35] S2: What was the bit of feedback that you found most hard to take? [00:36:38] S0: You you have to assume the person giving you negative feedback have the best intentions for you. And once you realize that and it's nothing personal, you can take all negative feedback, even if it's very harsh. [00:36:48] S2: Was there a bit of feedback that you found the hardest to give? [00:36:52] S0: No. It's very important you have that you create a culture of truth seeking. And the truth is very ugly, might hurt someone's feelings, you should still say it because it'll make that person better. [00:37:02] S2: Is there anything that you shouldn't say because it ultimately doesn't make them better? [00:37:07] S0: Well, if it keeps giving negative feedback to a person that they haven't improved, then I I just stop bothering. They can leave the company. [00:37:13] S2: Do you think there's a bit of a culture of fear around you? Like, if you look... Again, I love Nick, and I think he's a phenomenal leader and one of the greatest founders I've ever interviewed ever, and I've done a thousand founder interviews. But, I mean, that's not... I don't know whatever the right term. Let's not shy away from it. Mhmm. People are scared of him. Is it bad to have a fear based leadership? [00:37:32] S0: What matters is people need to feel like they can speak the truth. [00:37:36] S2: And you do with Nick? [00:37:37] S0: Yes. I tell him if I think it's a bad idea, I tell Nick. Now he can disagree with me, and sometimes I change his mind, sometimes I don't. But I do tell him the truth.
00:37:37 · Alan Chang, Harry Stebbings
[00:37:37] S0: Yes. I tell him if I think it's a bad idea, I tell Nick. Now he can disagree with me, and sometimes I change his mind, sometimes I don't. But I do tell him the truth. [00:37:46] S2: What specific decision on product or strategy do you think moves the needle most with Revolut? Was there one, like, have to go into crypto. We have to go into stock trading. We have to do x country. We have to invest in x. [00:38:01] S0: No. Because the answer is we need to do everything. Yeah. I think as we build a company, we realize there's so many opportunities, and we just need to pursue all of them. [00:38:10] S2: That advice is completely counter what every founder is being told that you need to focus. You need to create a product for a very specific customer base and you need to deliver that excellent experience and focus, focus, focus. There's so many shiny objects, you can't pursue them all. Yeah. That advice is completely counter that. What would you say to them listening who are now confused?
00:38:10 · Harry Stebbings, Alan Chang
[00:38:10] S2: That advice is completely counter what every founder is being told that you need to focus. You need to create a product for a very specific customer base and you need to deliver that excellent experience and focus, focus, focus. There's so many shiny objects, you can't pursue them all. Yeah. That advice is completely counter that. What would you say to them listening who are now confused? [00:38:30] S0: I I actually think there are not enough ambitious founders out there. Because ultimately, the the throughput of the company, like how many parallel work streams you can take at a given time, is dictated by a number of great leaders you have in the company. And the zero sum mindset will be, okay, I only have that many leaders in the company. But in some cases, it could just be the founders himself. Therefore, I'm just gonna pursue these things. The expansionist mindset would be, I need to hire more leaders in my company so I can pursue more. Right? So I'll argue we're in the business of expanding things. So rather than you try to play the zero sum game, we should try and figure out ways to know, hire more leaders so you can pursue more. [00:39:08] S2: What does your direct report structure look like? Jensen has popularized the... Having, you know, 50 and being so involved in the minutiae of a large amount of the business in terms of surface area. To what extent do you agree with that versus to delegate to fantastic leadership like you kind of mentioned there in terms of increasing surface area?