00:36:07 路 Jordi Hays, Farza Majeed
[00:36:07] S0: had raised money out the gates. [00:36:09] S6: I mean, yeah. I mean, I'm I'm never the type of guy that wants to be losing thousands of dollars a day. So we can stop it early. But no, mean, that's the thing about AI. Like, know, if you're I built a lot of social apps in my life and for those costs technically don't matter based on the number of users coming in. But in my case, for every, like, 10 new people I add, I'm kinda losing or losing money or making money depending on who what they're doing. So Yeah. I kinda gotta gotta think about it. So, yeah, it's kind of AI kinda accidentally making everybody better at business, because it's kind of required.
00:36:39 路 John Coogan, Farza Majeed, Ranjan Rajagopalan
[00:36:39] S1: So is, I I'm I'm thinking about the hilarious, hilarious, like like, trade off in having an agent that applies a coupon code but winds up spending more money applying the coupon code than you save. Because it's like, oh, yeah. We put in this. It saved you 24垄, but the API call is 25垄. But how how do you how how important to you will, like, creating an ensemble of models that sort of maximize the Pareto frontier be as you build this business? Because I'm imagining that any day now we're going to get somewhat useful on device models on Mac from the new Siri models, the on device models. Those will probably be very limited in what they can do but useful for some things and that's free for you. Then you'll have open source legacy models, GPT-four class stuff and then you might only call out to a Fable five on demand. So do you need to build your own router or is there a tool that you'll be using? Like how important will that be from the interactions that you're seeing? [00:37:46] S6: That's a great question. You're pretty much asking, like, what's the harness? And we just built our own. Okay. Because technically, like, this is all so early where there's nothing to use off the shelf. Yeah. You have to think deeply about it yourself then build it yourself. So for example, let's just say, you know, you're on Clicky right now and you're saying, hey, Clicky. I want you to actually research the latest in the Iran war [00:38:06] S11: and put [00:38:06] S6: it in my in a Notion doc for me when you're done. [00:38:08] S1: Sure.
00:38:08 路 John Coogan, Farza Majeed, Bret Taylor
[00:38:08] S1: Sure. [00:38:10] S6: What now? Like, should it hit Opus? Should it hit Codex? Should it hit it's actually depend. And so, like, we can take all those requests today and just route them ourselves. So, yeah, we we use, like, we use, like, four models right now underneath the hood. [00:38:22] S1: And and do you have a model that's doing the routing? [00:38:25] S6: So GPT real time actually does the routing. [00:38:27] S1: Does the routing? I think that How interesting. [00:38:29] S6: Yeah. That's something that we that's something that we figured out then. I think not even the OpenAI team really knew and they hit us up about, which is That's a great router. Yeah. It's so good at, like because it's so good at tool calling. [00:38:39] S2: Yeah. [00:38:40] S6: That means it's actually really good at writing requests. So for example, we have this tool call called Call Fable five. Mhmm. So if the user asks something that, like, is a heavier pixel task, we call Fable five. And if it's, like, more of, like, agentic work, we call we call GBD 5.5. And so, it's kinda all being done in the background. But that's the kind of magic of the product right now where it's like, most people who use our product have never used an agent before. They don't even know what codec is. [00:39:03] S1: Yeah. And [00:39:04] S6: so, to them it's magical where it's like, oh, I'm just talking to my computer and it's doing the thing. That's that's awesome. That's they want.
00:39:04 路 Farza Majeed, Jordi Hays, John Coogan, Vinod Khosla
[00:39:04] S6: so, to them it's magical where it's like, oh, I'm just talking to my computer and it's doing the thing. That's that's awesome. That's they want. [00:39:10] S0: How do you how do you think about the tension between, I think, you being a generational media talent Mhmm. And then, like, startups? Because I actually feel like this is our first time meeting, but I've seen your videos over many years at this point and like, you're just really really really really good at it. So much so that as like somebody who's in media, I'm like, well, I kinda want you to just do that. Podcaster. Normally normally it's the exact opposite where it's like, hey, like, you shouldn't do this podcast. You should just work on your company, you know, or whatever whatever the thing is. Yeah. And and they obviously feed into each other really well. Mhmm. Like you have Yeah. An edge. You can get attention for free, you know, just investing a few hours, making a video, whatever. It's very, very powerful skill set. But how do you think about that tension? [00:40:03] S6: You know, it's funny like I've been making videos for like fifteen plus years and I Overnight success. [00:40:09] S1: Second time. Yeah. [00:40:11] S9: I always just
00:40:11 路 Vinod Khosla, Farza Majeed, Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[00:40:11] S9: I always just [00:40:12] S6: see this as a as like a I think I get to do for fun on the side while I get to do the main thing which is like actually build stuff for people. At the end of the day, like, I am painfully familiar with how bad of a business like making videos is, and making movies is, and making music is. Like, I know how bad of a business is like firsthand. And so I know, but I know more than anybody the power of getting in front of a billion people every single month. Mhmm. When there's a good engine underneath, a good business engine engine underneath it, that you that that's that's powering something else. And so, I fully intend to do that. So if I have this media ability, I'm glad I got it. I think Yeah. [00:40:48] S0: But it's like a [00:40:48] S1: way to do [00:40:50] S0: it's like sales. [00:40:51] S1: Yeah. Sales. [00:40:52] S0: It's like Really sales. Sales.
00:40:52 路 Jordi Hays, John Coogan, Farza Majeed
[00:40:52] S0: It's like Really sales. Sales. [00:40:53] S1: You gotta be good at sales. WWC, some movement on interoperability in iOS still feels like the clicky iOS app is probably on the longer term and will be stuck in the walled garden for a while. But what I'm interested in is that do you see just a really, really solid market? Because there's no DaVinci Resolve iOS app that I'm aware of and certainly people don't there are there are like prosumer sort of professional tools that really only exist on a desktop or a laptop. And so are you interested in like going and hacking on crazy workarounds to build something that like maybe makes people a little upset in Cupertino but gets you into that more casual mobile space? Or do you think that you just want to focus on desktop, prosumer, you know, desktop apps? [00:41:52] S6: No. I want it all. Want when you talk to your computer, whether this is your computer Yeah. Or your computer is this computer. [00:41:59] S1: Let's go.