00:31:54 路 Farza Majeed, John Coogan
[00:31:54] S6: So it started it was yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. [00:31:57] S1: I I I just want to hear about like the un hobbling path because I imagine that there's demand for, you know, like these chat interfaces have existed for years where you open an app and you you know, do the voice mode and then you have it read it back to you. And there's some that are more polished than others. But when I think about using a computer, think rearranging Windows, I want anime over here and DaVinci Resolve over here and the YouTube video over here. And I want to be able to puppeteer the mouse and the keyboard have full context so I need to be taking screenshots every minute, every second, 30 times a second, 144 hertz. Like what are we doing there? How are you getting the data in? And then what's actually under the hood because you need to process the voice actually produce an output. And it's surprising to see a harness like break out of this so quickly. [00:32:50] S6: Yeah. Yeah. It's actually so simple. We use g p t real time upfront Mhmm. To give you like like the first layer to give you like the really quick answer. [00:32:57] S1: Okay. [00:32:58] S6: But then if you want like a deeper kind of like a thought process over the image, you know, if you're in DaVinci Resolve, in some complicated software, we now use Fable five actually Really? By default. Yeah. So now Fable five is like absolutely mind blowing in terms of how precise it is on screen understanding. [00:33:13] S1: Under the
00:33:13 路 John Coogan, Farza Majeed, Vinod Khosla, Jordi Hays
[00:33:13] S1: Under the [00:33:13] S6: So we use that now by default when you wanna like understand something on your screen. But yeah, only actually screenshot when you press a button. Okay. [00:33:19] S1: I don't [00:33:20] S6: wanna press the button. [00:33:20] S9: You won't [00:33:21] S1: even screenshot. [00:33:21] S6: But it's Yeah. But it's really crazy because we can still detect the program you're on and stuff and that's already really helpful. Sure. Like if I if I know you're on Notion, for example Yeah. And I you're there for like ten minutes, I can just ask you and be like, hey, what are you doing? Like, can I help you? And I think it's that sort of new modality that's like been really exciting because that's something that's just not possible today with any chat interface. [00:33:42] S0: Yeah. It's more like a like a co worker walking up, like like a co worker just like being like present and like kind of like like sometimes you don't need help until you're asked. Right? Or you don't describe it. Yeah. [00:33:55] S6: Yeah. I kinda describe it as like having this 23 year old intern with like a decent like a like a new grad that's always watching over my shoulder and and just pretty much like seeing patterns in what I'm doing and then it's and then just tapping me and saying, can I do that for you? If I had that, of course, that would be awesome. But it'd be cool if everybody had that.
00:33:55 路 Farza Majeed, John Coogan, S5, S10
[00:33:55] S6: Yeah. I kinda describe it as like having this 23 year old intern with like a decent like a like a new grad that's always watching over my shoulder and and just pretty much like seeing patterns in what I'm doing and then it's and then just tapping me and saying, can I do that for you? If I had that, of course, that would be awesome. But it'd be cool if everybody had that. [00:34:13] S1: A lot of these frontier models are expensive. How are you thinking about the business model? Because it it seems like you've built something useful. People should just pay 10% on top of whatever the metered rate is. But at the same time, in consumer, prosumer subscriptions, flat pricing is very popular. But that introduces financial risk to you. You have to understand your costs and how they change. What do you think the business model will be as you grow the business? [00:34:43] S6: Yeah. I mean, believe it or not, like people are very open to paying large amounts of money like normal consumers, like large amounts of money [00:34:49] S1: Yeah. [00:34:50] S6: For for like more for having better access to these models [00:34:54] S5: Sure. [00:34:55] S6: Through different interfaces. So right now, we just charge a straight up $20 a month. Okay. But even then, there's a limit. You know, you get like for $20 a month, get a 150 agents on Clicky. [00:35:03] S10: Sure.
00:35:03 路 S10, Farza Majeed, John Coogan, Jordi Hays, Bret Taylor
[00:35:03] S10: Sure. [00:35:03] S6: But even that's very specific because once you pass that number, that's when we start losing money. Yeah. So everything's done in such a way where it's pretty cost effective. Also, like, just so you guys know, like, just calling, like, Sonnet or Opus or Fable, it's kinda cheap overall. Mhmm. The expensive part is, like, agentic work. That's really expensive. Yep. [00:35:21] S1: Like, just [00:35:22] S6: to give you an idea, on GBD 5.5, if you tell Codex right now to like go and click add to cart in Amazon, that costs 25垄 on by just API. Yeah. And I know because I'm seeing the cost myself. Yeah. And so there's a lot of tricks to kind of reduce that. But no, overall, there's so many tricks to making agents cheaper, more efficient, changing the model based on their quest [00:35:44] S0: catch it. Are did you haven't you have raised for this or you haven't? [00:35:48] S6: In the process. [00:35:49] S0: In the process. There we go. [00:35:51] S2: There we go. [00:35:52] S6: If you're out there. [00:35:53] S0: Yeah. But but if you're in the process, that means like you didn't launch this and be like, oh, I'm down to be losing like $5,000 a day Sure. You know, on you know, like, you're you've been focused on the economics probably earlier than you would have been if you were [00:36:07] S1: That's really [00:36:07] S0: had raised money out the gates.
00:36:07 路 Jordi Hays, Farza Majeed
[00:36:07] S0: had raised money out the gates. [00:36:09] S6: I mean, yeah. I mean, I'm I'm never the type of guy that wants to be losing thousands of dollars a day. So we can stop it early. But no, mean, that's the thing about AI. Like, know, if you're I built a lot of social apps in my life and for those costs technically don't matter based on the number of users coming in. But in my case, for every, like, 10 new people I add, I'm kinda losing or losing money or making money depending on who what they're doing. So Yeah. I kinda gotta gotta think about it. So, yeah, it's kind of AI kinda accidentally making everybody better at business, because it's kind of required.
00:36:39 路 John Coogan, Farza Majeed, Ranjan Rajagopalan
[00:36:39] S1: So is, I I'm I'm thinking about the hilarious, hilarious, like like, trade off in having an agent that applies a coupon code but winds up spending more money applying the coupon code than you save. Because it's like, oh, yeah. We put in this. It saved you 24垄, but the API call is 25垄. But how how do you how how important to you will, like, creating an ensemble of models that sort of maximize the Pareto frontier be as you build this business? Because I'm imagining that any day now we're going to get somewhat useful on device models on Mac from the new Siri models, the on device models. Those will probably be very limited in what they can do but useful for some things and that's free for you. Then you'll have open source legacy models, GPT-four class stuff and then you might only call out to a Fable five on demand. So do you need to build your own router or is there a tool that you'll be using? Like how important will that be from the interactions that you're seeing? [00:37:46] S6: That's a great question. You're pretty much asking, like, what's the harness? And we just built our own. Okay. Because technically, like, this is all so early where there's nothing to use off the shelf. Yeah. You have to think deeply about it yourself then build it yourself. So for example, let's just say, you know, you're on Clicky right now and you're saying, hey, Clicky. I want you to actually research the latest in the Iran war [00:38:06] S11: and put [00:38:06] S6: it in my in a Notion doc for me when you're done. [00:38:08] S1: Sure.