Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
01:02:19 · G2 Patel, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:02:19] S0: Don't make it fake. If you don't love someone, don't tell them you love them. That's the other thing that I have. [01:02:27] S1: It's so interesting. We just did a little interview kind of thing with my mother-in-law meant for our son, just for him to have when he's older. They just interviewed her about her story and stuff and they asked her at the end of it, "What's something you want Jude," which is his name, "to know, a lesson to learn from you?" And it's to just, if you love someone, tell them you love them as much as you can. [01:02:52] S0: Yeah, that's so true. You're so intentional about the way in which you do these things. I wish I'd done a, I should do that now. Now I think about it, do a podcast for my daughter that's only for her when she gets older. [01:03:06] S1: I'll send you these. This group, they do this. I think they're in the Bay Area, but it's incredible. It's a whole documentary thing where they interview you, film your life for a little bit and then make a whole documentary. [01:03:17] S0: Oh really? Oh, wow. I'd love that actually. [01:03:19] S1: Yes. Oh, man. They're going to get a lot of business right now. [01:03:21] S0: There you go.
01:03:21 · G2 Patel, Lenny Rachitsky
[01:03:21] S0: There you go. [01:03:24] S1: Let me end with a question around just your journey. So today you lead product at a 90,000 person company. You manage 30,000 people. Like you said, you grew up in India in Bombay very far outside Silicon Valley. A lot of people hearing this today are kind of in a similar boat. They're way outside of the valley, maybe don't have a lot of obvious way to break in. They don't have a lot of opportunity and they see someone like you and that's their dream. What would your advice be to someone in that place right now?
01:04:00 · G2 Patel
[01:04:00] S0: The platform that you choose and the quality of problems that you pick to solve actually determine a lot of the path of success for you. And typically harder problems have a higher likelihood of success. Because the harder problems are the ones that attract better people to that problem and business as a team sport. And if you attract people to the problems that are hard and important enough to solve, then you get the best team, and you get the best team, your odds are winning just go up exponentially. So most people think I'm going to go out and pick an easy enough problem to solve. And it's like you don't get the best-team attracted to you to start up a lemonade stand, very important job. But that might not be the thing that actually gets the best team to come to you. But if you actually pick a hard enough problem to solve, you'll get the best team to come. So that's one. Number two, I'd say that you can teach and learn a lot of things in life. I don't think you can learn hunger or you can't teach hunger. So find what you're intrinsically hungry about and make sure that you try to pursue that area. And that's different from passion about something. It's like in everything that you do in work, you have to just understand the formula that there's going to be 30% of the stuff that you do at work that you're just going to hate. And you have to get used to things that you hate that you have to do. But further, but find something that you're really hungry about that makes you want to come in to work every day, because the mission is worth the expenditure of energy that you're putting into it. And I'll leave you with a story which was, I hadn't gone to India in a long time. When I left India, I didn't go back. I left in '91 and I hadn't gone back in any kind of meaningful way until 2017 because of all the trauma in childhood. For whatever reason, I hadn't gone back. But I took my daughter and we went to Agra to see the Taj Mahal and we went there and there was this tour guide, his name was Raj. And this tour guide was like he understood so much about the product that he was selling, which was the tour of the Taj Mahal. I don't know if he was making the shit up or not, but it sounded really good and he seemed like he was kind of early on it.
01:06:32 · G2 Patel
But when we were walking back, there's all these people and he would just start talking to them and he'd bust out in different languages. He'd talk to someone in German, talk to someone in French, someone in Spanish, someone in Hindi, someone in. And at some point in time in Mandarin. And at some point in time I stopped, "Dude, how many languages do you speak?" He's like, "Oh, I speak, I don't know, 12 or 14 or some ridiculous number. But I try to learn a new language every year." I'm like, "Oh, why is that?" And he goes, "Well, I just want to honor the people that come here and not be presumptuous that they will speak in the language that I know." I want to speak in their language. And I'm thinking to myself, I was a box at the time. I'm like, "This guy is smarter than every person on the executive team and probably just as smart as every salesperson we have, but he's making $10 a day and all of us are enjoying this amazing life, and it's because we have access to a platform and he doesn't." So when people start confusing life thinking that, "Everything that I've earned is because of my amazing abilities." I always question that, because there's a lot of luck in this thing. But when luck does present itself, be extremely prepared to capitalize on it. And make sure that you pick the platform that can actually give you that springboard. Because platforms really matter. And if we, like I had the platform and benefit of America, of education, of being in tech, of having great friends and mentors, all of those things created compounding value. But I intentionally sought out those platforms, seek out the platform, be obsessed about being extremely prepared, and don't be intellectually lazy. Laziness is not a good trait. So do the preparation that's needed. And then just make sure that during that time period that you're doing, if you build a community around you of people that are vested in your success, I think it's just, life is just a more fun way to live it, rather than being the lone wolf that's going at it by themselves. And that's why I always feel like making sure that you are expressive and communicative and don't try to carry the entire world's burden on your shoulders, but actually share it with people with you, the people that you share it with actually appreciate that you're sharing it with them. And most people in the world love to help.
01:09:11 · G2 Patel, Lenny Rachitsky
So ask for the help, but make sure that that help is not transactional. And don't just go to them when you need something. Actually try to add value first for a long enough amount of time, not because at some point you might need something from them, just hard-wire yourself into adding value to others. And then eventually that value starts showing up, and life's just a better way to live life. And I do feel like right now it's hard for kids getting into the workforce and all of that. So, don't lose hope and stay persistent and have stamina, because these things go up and down. But if you kind of stick with it, the people that have the most amount of persistence, it's very seldom that they don't end up winning. [01:10:00] S1: Something that comes to me as you share this advice. Arnold Schwarzenegger's has this book that he put out, and I feel like the title of the book is the best piece of advice, and the simplest way to describe How to be Successful in Life, which is be useful. [01:10:19] S0: That is so good. [01:10:22] S1: Jeetu, this was incredible. Is there anything that we didn't cover that you wanted to share? Anything you want to leave listeners with before we get to our very exciting lightning round? [01:10:29] S0: I think there's a framework that I use for great companies that might be worth kind of sharing with people. [01:10:29] S1: Yes. [01:10:34] S0: There's a six part framework that I have, which is in descending order of importance, and on how to build great companies. This is- [01:10:47] S1: Amazing.
01:10:48 · G2 Patel
[01:10:48] S0: You get it for free, you get what you pay for it, so take it with a grain of salt. But here's the way I think about it. The most important thing is timing. The six things you need in a company, if you don't have all these six, you don't win. But they're stack ranked in descending order of importance, but you have to have all six. Number one is timing. It's the most important. It's the thing that you control the least. And there's a lot of companies that have built amazing products, amazing services at the wrong time, in the right market and not won, right? And so timing really matters. You don't control timing, but if you don't have timing, you don't win. Number two is the market. You have to be able to go after a large enough market, a chunk at a time. And if you're not able to go out and prosecute a market a chunk at a time, but make sure that that keeps getting bigger and bigger, it's very hard to win. So market tends to be the second most important thing in my mind after timing. The third one then is team. You have to have the right team. And the team does not mean just people liking each other. Team means that it is actually well-rounded. That means the things that you suck at someone else is really good at, and you have both accepted that of each other. For example, I have a person that I never go to another job without, and she is my partner in crime. And the reason I have her is because she is so good at things that I'm not good at. And so she's able to, any job I've taken since I've been working with her, it's always, it's a combined deal. If we don't have two offers, we don't go. And so team is really important, a well-rounded team where people understand how to complement each other. And by the way, in the team, sometimes people say, "Well, isn't team more important than market?" No, if you have a great market mediocre team, the market pulls you up. If you have a shitty market and a great team, the market drags you down. The market always wins. So no, timing, market, team. Number four is product. I think product is the soul of a company. That's the place where people seek value is, what are you delivering to me? What problem are you solving to me gets manifested through the delivery of a product. So you have to make sure that you build a great product. I actually think it's unethical to have a mediocre product sold in the market.