01:00:18 · Luca Ferrari, Roman Kirsch
So of course there are redundancies that appear every time we acquire a company. So that's a huge misconception. It couldn't be further from the truth, but it's also the lazy explanation. And so that's what people intuitively go for every single I [01:00:37] S0: think you said in the past that you're sometimes extremely paranoid. And had to think of my very first business angel. He ended every board meeting with only the paranoids survive. [01:00:50] S2: Andy Grove. I read the book. [01:00:52] S0: So what are you currently paranoid about?
01:00:55 · Luca Ferrari
[01:00:55] S2: Yeah, it's not a good... It's both a superpower and a super curse, if you know what I mean. Well, we have a lot of investors and especially pretty much all spooners, that's how we call one another, have invested in the company. Feel a massive sense of responsibility for them and both making sure that we never mislead any of these people into believing there's more potential than there actually is. And two, we want to deliver and seize that potential if we realize that potential if we can. And so that's something that keeps me up at night just that sense of weight on my shoulders, which I think a lot of colleagues share but I certainly feel it. We have in absolute terms a pretty substantial amount of debt, well over a billion dollars. It's not a whole lot relative to our but it's still quite a lot of money. And although we feel we have followed very prudent policies when it comes to debt, it's still a risk. If you don't pay it back that would be disastrous. So we keep looking at the numbers and make sure that the risk of that happening is tiny, negligible. We care so much about attracting and retaining top talent and so we're constantly obsessed with what can we do to make our product, the jobs we offer even better. What can we do to tell that story accurately? Particularly with all the noise we talked about before, false narratives, the hate and the love not probably being ideal. I prefer a world of balanced assessments. I think it would be a better world. I would very rarely give up the excessive love if I could get rid of the excessive hate too. And so how do we make sure that we put out there accurate information people can judge us based on? So all of these are things I constantly think about and gnaw at me sometimes in not too healthy ways.
01:03:05 · Roman Kirsch, Matteo Danieli, Luca Ferrari
[01:03:05] S0: Matteo, you're also paranoid? [01:03:06] S1: Well, as a paranoid person, maybe something that I'm paranoid about is we choose the businesses we acquire because they have a dominant position perhaps in the market, but the market is constantly evolving. And as more and more tools appear where basically anyone can code up something that would take months before, the challenges become more and more. So the thought of how do you retain that position of dominance despite the changes in the market and despite the competition, that's something that I keep on wondering about. [01:03:46] S0: Yeah. Okay. So Bending Spoons now a few 100 millions in revenues, few 100 millions in profits. I'm not sure if you're disclosing what [01:03:54] S2: €1,200,000,000 revenue. [01:03:55] S0: €1,200,000,000 revenue. Okay. I wasn't sure if it's public information, but [01:04:00] S2: I don't know, share typically share revenue. [01:04:02] S0: Roundabout It's got to be 5,000,000,000 in valuation, rumored. And do you see room for the neck? Is there a ceiling? Where do you want to grow? Is there more of the same? Do you feel that you need to kind of rethink some basic strategies?
01:04:02 · Roman Kirsch, Luca Ferrari
[01:04:02] S0: Roundabout It's got to be 5,000,000,000 in valuation, rumored. And do you see room for the neck? Is there a ceiling? Where do you want to grow? Is there more of the same? Do you feel that you need to kind of rethink some basic strategies? [01:04:27] S2: Not in the immediate future. There's a massive amount of digital technology businesses out there. Many are looking for a permanent home because something that we do also that we found very appealing for sellers is we never sell a business. I mean never say never. We have never sold a business required. We don't have any plans to sell one. It's quite appealing for sellers to know that there will be stability. [01:04:54] S0: And that the brand is going to be around, right? Exactly. So
01:04:54 · Roman Kirsch, Luca Ferrari
[01:04:54] S0: And that the brand is going to be around, right? Exactly. So [01:04:58] S2: there's plenty looking for a buyer and many more will be looking for a buyer in the future. Literally thousands of sizable businesses, the digital technology industry is gigantic. So I think there's room to grow quite a lot further. If you ask me, is there a path to increase revenue by a factor of 100? Probably not a straightforward one. Then maybe we would need to expand into even more industries, go beyond consumer intranet, self serve B2B, maybe even enterprise software. I'd like to think a lot of competitive advantages we're building, employer brand, company culture, deep principles or how to make good decisions from businesses would translate fairly well. But naturally, the evolution would be substantial. There have been companies serially acquisitive compounders, that have managed that transition successfully. One comes to mind, and that's Danaher. They're in industrial, so very physical things and lean manufacturing and whatnot. Started off in the I believe in the 1980s or early 1990s. And they've been compounding for thirty, thirty five years, I think, at very good rates. And they have expanded into health care and diagnostics and very successfully. They're now probably worth 500,000,000,000 or so the last time I checked. So there are examples, although they're different, but close enough that give us a general direction or certain glimmer of possibility, and we'll make sure to pursue that and seize it if possible. But we do have a clear path for the next, say, five years.
01:06:43 · Roman Kirsch, Luca Ferrari
[01:06:43] S0: Okay. And I think you once said this is kind of your thirty year life's work. Is that still the plan? What happens after the thirty years? [01:06:52] S2: We're year 12 so it's long enough that we should be credible on these sort of promises. Yeah absolutely, I've always found that I find it more inspiring to do a few things and do them really well. I feel the same way with the friendships. My wife, I'm a loyal guy. Don't look for volume. I look for few things that matter so to say. So yeah, I'd much rather on my deathbed I'd much rather feel I contributed to one huge highly admired and probably hated too because I assume that seems to be necessary at this point institution than having dipped my toes in multiple things of more middling success. So yeah, thirty years is just a pretty high level to give a sense of the commitment. I could be dead by year thirty. Who knows? So, yeah, I hope I can continue contributing. I think it's more likely that I would... I probably not want to be here if I felt I'm not the best person for the job or someone I trust felt that way. But as long as I'm needed I'm unlikely to not be there for the company and my colleagues. Mean you never know health, there are so many unknowns in life but... [01:08:11] S0: Cool. Well, that's been really amazing to kind of hear the insights of, you know, how you think about operating and how you think about strategy. Would you be up for some final rapid fire questions? Can try not. Okay, let's start with number one. Which company would you secretly love to acquire?