00:48:02 · Guillaume Moubeche
[00:48:02] S1: Do you feel like Polsia will stay the same for every single customer? Because if you if you go like further on your idea, like everyone has a different way of behaving, everyone is looking for something different. You might have like a thousand of customer requests and you could like imagine a world where every single customer request is a new branch on your code base and every, you know, like, user is seeing like a different interface. We're seeing like some trends. I I think it's hard for a non, like, AI native product to build this, but if you look at what HubSpot is doing with DoorDash, like, they are going through, you know, like, now you can start developing, you know, directly on HubSpot before you have to code a little bit. Now you can do it just with, like, a normal language. So what's what's your view on that? And do you feel like it's a it's one interface for everyone, or do you feel that eventually the product will adapt to each person using it?
00:49:06 · Ben Cera
[00:49:06] S0: I think it's a very cool and forward thinking idea of a self evolving software that adapts and customizes itself for each customer. I think that the only issue with that is cost. Because essentially for you to build and maintain a specific branch of a product for each single user, you have to have very high ACV and high margin customer. Right? So if you target, like, enterprise customers, that's pretty much what's gonna happen. But actually, you think about enterprise customers, enterprise customers will build their own software that's highly specialized for them. So actually the cost is on them, and there's no margin. For Salesforce or for like AWS to build a custom version of that product for each customer, they could because they have a high margin. Right? The question becomes like, is it overkill? Is it... Like, that's my main issue. And I think for a product like Polsia, where we're actually trying to like lower the cost and like make it more and more affordable over time because that benefits us because we can reach billions of people instead of like millions, if if we were to like lower the cost a lot. A customized version is almost the opposite, like it needs to be much more expensive. So I love the idea. I think it's a idea. I don't know if like it's it's needed. Does that make sense? It's sort of like Yeah. Yeah. Like a fun thing, but I don't know if like it's the right thing.
00:50:34 · Guillaume Moubeche
[00:50:34] S1: Yeah. And right now, are you like on your own in the team? Or are you like like hiring people? Because obviously, your your your company is built as, you know, an AI first company, and it's kind of like you don't need a co founder. You just need Polsia. So I'm wondering, like, how does it work from the insights?
00:50:54 · Ben Cera
[00:50:54] S0: So initially, I built the company alone, and I stayed alone before Product Market Fit, then Product Market Fit happened, and I thought to myself, should I hire people? But then the marketing itself is about me being a one person company, and I'm like, dude, I can't break... First of all, it's a crazy experiment, because it's like, if you constrain yourself to not hire full time people, it becomes a trip, because you're like, okay, shit, but I do need help, but I can hire, so what's the way to get help without hiring? Right? And there's ways to do that. And second of all, I started to treat it as like an art experiment. It's like, I don't if it's an art experiment or a business experiment of like, well, I'm preaching that AI can help a solopreneur with Polsia run a big biz... Run a business, then a small business, then a big business. Well, if I can't do it myself, then how could I do it? But essentially, as things scaled a lot, I had to have help. And so the way I I thought about it is like, well, I need to stay one... Zero employees. However, what I can do is like work with other companies that are also building the future, and are building the infrastructure for agents, you know, in different verticals, and email, because there's so... In San Francisco, there's so many startups that are... That can see the same future, but like, they're not building the platform, they're building more the infra. Right? And so I started partnering with companies that are building this infra anyways, and they need a customer like me because I can be a big customer, and so you can make deals with companies where it's like, well, I'll use you, so I'll give you... I'll be your biggest customer, but in exchange, you make sure that your SDK or your product is really custom made for my needs, and provides a scalable and secure infrastructure for my product. So that that's one way to hire people without... And you don't hire people, you hire a company. Or you partner with the company. So technically, should... No, but technically, they're not no, they're not my employees. They're like... They are their own company building their own thing, but you sort of align their incentives to make it work. And same thing for, like, you know, for marketing and design. It's...
00:53:03 · Ben Cera, Guillaume Moubeche
What's interesting actually for marketing and design is that the best people, you can hire them actually. So the best people I know, they already make money, and they have their own companies, Yeah. Own And you can hire them, and so they don't wanna be your full time employee, but they are... But they have a price. They have, like, you know, they they they want... They can pick their customers. So, like, I work with a lot of, like, increasingly a lot of, like, marketing agencies that friends started, or design design agencies, product agencies. And so they help me, but like, they're technically not a full time employee, so I don't have like meetings with them. It's more like a, hey, this... You think about Polsia and you give me ideas, and then I'll pick them, and then I can actually just tell Claude Code to just implement it. Right? So there's no need for all these layers of complexity, and I just... Since I'm the only full time employee, there's no meetings, I'd say, you know, if I'm convinced of this podcast, I'll just do it. I'm not like, should we do this? Should I do billions or not? Like, what do you think? What do you guys think? Or should the cofounder do it on me? Like, what... You know? Like, it's just me. There's no... There's never any stress about The chain of commitment is easy to follow. Exactly. [00:54:19] S1: Yeah. I know we're we're almost out of time, so I I just have like one maybe last question. Like, if Polsia like succeeds the way you want it to succeed, what job will kind of like disappear first do you think?
00:54:36 · Ben Cera
[00:54:36] S0: I mean, to me, it's not really that jobs will disappear is that the way way people... Essentially it's like instead of being an engineer, you'll be an engineer orchestrator of... You'll be an orchestrator of engineering agents. Instead of being an accountant, you'll be an orchestrator of accounting agents. But I think that like the thing that people need to remember is that as long as humans have the wallet share, that they have the money to spend, which that may change over time, but today it's humans. It's humans selling to humans. So if, for example, I have lawyers right now. Actually, the first version of like a lot of the terms of service was AI, and I was talking to a lawyer this morning and they were like, who did your terms of service? Because actually it's pretty good. I'm like, it's AI. But yeah, AI is really smart. And he was like, well, it's pretty much there. We're gonna modify a few things, but it's pretty much there. So... But right now, as the business grows and there's more responsibility to make the system very legally sound and legally clear so that customers feel safe and are protected, and da da da da da I need another human to tell me like it's safe versus AI, and like I trust it, but I'm like, what if it's wrong, right? So I think that, like, jobs will just change. Right? They will change, and and the people that, like, will survive will be AI native, whether they whether they will use products like Polsia to be AI entrepreneurs, AI first entrepreneurs, or they are AI account... You know, AI first account... Accounting, AI first engineers, and I think the jobs that will actually thrive the most are offline services, human to human. If you're hospitality, you know, experiences, like I think there's gonna be an abundance of that because as the online becomes weirder and weirder and like inundated with like weird shit, and AI generated stuff, I think people will navigate more into the offline world, which will feel more safe and real. If you think about sales people, nobody will trust the cold outreach very soon, or like, or LinkedIn message, or whatever, and so in person sales will become bigger and bigger. Again, as long as humans all have the wallet, all the purchased,