00:04:08 · Danny Fortson, Katie Prescott
[00:04:08] S9: Yeah. Exactly. And then we're, like, powering steaming ahead with AI and all this new stuff, you know, occasional humanoid robot, of course. So whereas bending spoons is... Feels like it's almost like looking backward and kind of trying to keep these things alive. So I've got questions. I've got questions. [00:04:27] S10: I don't want to give away too much before you hear the interview, because he goes into all of this. But if you think about the name Bending Spoons that has come from The Matrix, it is meant to make your mind twist in unexpected ways. And they've gone to buy these companies because they see value in them and have created value in them. So it was started in 2013 by four Italian engineer graduates. And they all, including our guest today, Luca Ferrari, have done extraordinarily well out of it. As I said, it went public earlier this year. And hopefully, if you listen to the interview, all of your questions will be answered. I have been really looking forward to this interview. You may not remember, but last year, I think I spoke to you for the first time and you were on your way somewhere in an airport. Since then, a huge amount has happened with Bending Spoons, not least you going public a few months ago. What's that been like? Like, what are your reflections on being a public company after after so long being private, and what... And what's that transition been like?
00:05:30 · Luca Ferrari, Katie Prescott
[00:05:30] S11: I try not to think about it too much, to be honest. It feels like being a little bit naked makes you uncomfortable. So I try to forget that we're a public company. Just I try to stay focused on building useful, powerful internal technology and and finding good acquisition targets and trying to be as good as possible at what we need to be good at. We had been thinking about going public for a while, I guess, because it typically helps you get access to more and cheaper capital. And as a capital intensive business, where we, you know, we need capital to grow faster, we are well aware of the headaches and the pressures that come with being a public company. We've experienced some of that, but it's early. You know, ask me again a couple of years, so I'll have a longer track record. [00:06:12] S10: When you talk about feeling naked, is that because of the share price, which is a live graph of investor confidence in you? Is it because of having to open up your books to public scrutiny?
00:06:24 · Luca Ferrari
[00:06:24] S11: I think it's probably three things. One is, yes, you need to transparently publish a lot about the company, which is fine. There's nothing to hide, but it just still feels a little bit weird that you have to show the whole world so much about what you do. Two, yes, the stock price, which it's very difficult to not create a connection between that number and how much you're worth as an individual. Like, are we good at our jobs? It's... So keeping it impersonal, which is necessary to stay sane and effective, is not easy, I think. Not for me, at least, although I think we've done well enough, but, it's tricky. And then the the the third part of it, and and perhaps the one that makes me most uncomfortable is all of a sudden, there's a level of attention scrutiny and almost obsession about you as a company that wasn't there before. Because before, people were curious about, say, Bending Spoons about what you do, maybe there's something to learn, maybe you're built a technology that's interesting, maybe you do something that's controversial, but it ends there. Now all of a sudden, people can make or lose money off what you do. And so every little piece of information becomes a tool to determine whether to buy or sell the stock. And so the level of attention goes into the stratosphere. I don't cherish the attention. I think very few of my colleagues do. So if we could do what we do in relative obscurity, we'd prefer it that way. But, you know, it is what it is. And we feel very privileged overall, so that's fine.
00:07:53 · Katie Prescott
[00:07:53] S10: The other thing I wanted to ask you about this is you will know as an Italian how much emphasis there is at the moment on trying to nurture and stimulate European tech and the focus on AI sovereignty and building a tech stack here in Europe. You listed in The US. Did you feel any pressure at all to go public in Europe to have, you know, a foot in Europe as well, or was it something you even considered?
00:08:20 · Luca Ferrari
[00:08:20] S11: So we did consider the different stock exchanges, including, you know, London, Amsterdam, Milan. And ultimately, was a pretty easy decision to list on Nasdaq. I think that the only real alternative for us would have been the New York Stock Exchange. The evaluations and liquidity are just on another level, typically, on the... These two American exchanges. And so I I don't think any responsible management team would would have made a different decision. I don't think it's all that bad for for Europe, really. I think what matters for Europe is that companies invest, in hiring people in Europe, creating competencies in Europe. That's really what drives economic prosperity. What stock exchange you list on is vastly relevant. Ultimately, European investors and households can buy stock on NASDAQ. Americans can buy stock on our exchanges. At this point, it's kind of globalized anyway. And, and, and we have invested heavily in Europe. I, we had an opportunity to, to build a company elsewhere, including The US. We decided to build it in Europe very early on. It was a decision we made quite consciously at the beginning. And one of the reasons why we we did this was that we wanted to prove that you can build a world beating technology company with with roots in in unlikely places. In our case, Italy, Milan. We thought that would be a good thing overall. I could elaborate on why, but I think the world is a better place if knowledge, wealth, opportunity is a little bit, you know, better distributed.
00:09:43 · Katie Prescott
[00:09:43] S10: I'd love to hear you elaborate on why. I have to... I was sitting next to an investor the other day who said that their investment thesis at the moment was Italy. They felt Alright. There are some great companies there, and people were just ignoring it as a place to put money. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.