00:02:28 · Danny Fortson, Katie Prescott
[00:02:28] S9: Is this after Yuri Geller? [00:02:30] S10: No. Although, actually, that has had had an impact on the business when they try and look for, look look for news about them. They keep coming up against some of, some of Yuri Geller's finest work. Yeah. Bending Spoons, for listeners who haven't heard of them, is valued at $20,000,000,000 It listed on the NASDAQ earlier this year and is headquartered in Italy. I can tell you there are not that many Italian tech companies of this scale. Right? No. It's kind of an extraordinary story, and we'll get into it. But they buy up old tech companies and soup them up. It's almost a private equity company meets tech. [00:03:12] S9: Right. So who have they got? [00:03:14] S10: Evernote. Remember them? [00:03:16] S9: I do remember Evernote, yes. [00:03:17] S10: AOL? AOL, yes. So another reason it's unusual is you've got this Italian company, and they've got lots and lots of techies and engineers. So as they go into these companies, and unlike a private equity company, might just strip them out, they haven't sold on any of these businesses. They plug in their own tech, they zhuzh up their management teams, and try and make them better and keep them going. [00:03:40] S9: Did you say zhuzh up? [00:03:42] S10: I I couldn't think of another way of describing it.
00:03:42 · Katie Prescott, Danny Fortson
[00:03:42] S10: I I couldn't think of another way of describing it. [00:03:44] S9: So... Well, so this sounds really interesting. My question is, why? Because the idea of buying up a bunch of old apps, like my my father-in-law, he's the only person I know who sells an aol.com email address, for example. So buying up these old apps that have kind of like... It's like an island of misfit toys. Right? [00:04:07] S10: Like the coveted toy store. [00:04:08] S9: Yeah. Exactly. And then we're, like, powering steaming ahead with AI and all this new stuff, you know, occasional humanoid robot, of course. So whereas bending spoons is... Feels like it's almost like looking backward and kind of trying to keep these things alive. So I've got questions. I've got questions.
00:04:08 · Danny Fortson, Katie Prescott
[00:04:08] S9: Yeah. Exactly. And then we're, like, powering steaming ahead with AI and all this new stuff, you know, occasional humanoid robot, of course. So whereas bending spoons is... Feels like it's almost like looking backward and kind of trying to keep these things alive. So I've got questions. I've got questions. [00:04:27] S10: I don't want to give away too much before you hear the interview, because he goes into all of this. But if you think about the name Bending Spoons that has come from The Matrix, it is meant to make your mind twist in unexpected ways. And they've gone to buy these companies because they see value in them and have created value in them. So it was started in 2013 by four Italian engineer graduates. And they all, including our guest today, Luca Ferrari, have done extraordinarily well out of it. As I said, it went public earlier this year. And hopefully, if you listen to the interview, all of your questions will be answered. I have been really looking forward to this interview. You may not remember, but last year, I think I spoke to you for the first time and you were on your way somewhere in an airport. Since then, a huge amount has happened with Bending Spoons, not least you going public a few months ago. What's that been like? Like, what are your reflections on being a public company after after so long being private, and what... And what's that transition been like?
00:05:30 · Luca Ferrari, Katie Prescott
[00:05:30] S11: I try not to think about it too much, to be honest. It feels like being a little bit naked makes you uncomfortable. So I try to forget that we're a public company. Just I try to stay focused on building useful, powerful internal technology and and finding good acquisition targets and trying to be as good as possible at what we need to be good at. We had been thinking about going public for a while, I guess, because it typically helps you get access to more and cheaper capital. And as a capital intensive business, where we, you know, we need capital to grow faster, we are well aware of the headaches and the pressures that come with being a public company. We've experienced some of that, but it's early. You know, ask me again a couple of years, so I'll have a longer track record. [00:06:12] S10: When you talk about feeling naked, is that because of the share price, which is a live graph of investor confidence in you? Is it because of having to open up your books to public scrutiny?
00:06:24 · Luca Ferrari
[00:06:24] S11: I think it's probably three things. One is, yes, you need to transparently publish a lot about the company, which is fine. There's nothing to hide, but it just still feels a little bit weird that you have to show the whole world so much about what you do. Two, yes, the stock price, which it's very difficult to not create a connection between that number and how much you're worth as an individual. Like, are we good at our jobs? It's... So keeping it impersonal, which is necessary to stay sane and effective, is not easy, I think. Not for me, at least, although I think we've done well enough, but, it's tricky. And then the the the third part of it, and and perhaps the one that makes me most uncomfortable is all of a sudden, there's a level of attention scrutiny and almost obsession about you as a company that wasn't there before. Because before, people were curious about, say, Bending Spoons about what you do, maybe there's something to learn, maybe you're built a technology that's interesting, maybe you do something that's controversial, but it ends there. Now all of a sudden, people can make or lose money off what you do. And so every little piece of information becomes a tool to determine whether to buy or sell the stock. And so the level of attention goes into the stratosphere. I don't cherish the attention. I think very few of my colleagues do. So if we could do what we do in relative obscurity, we'd prefer it that way. But, you know, it is what it is. And we feel very privileged overall, so that's fine.
00:07:53 · Katie Prescott
[00:07:53] S10: The other thing I wanted to ask you about this is you will know as an Italian how much emphasis there is at the moment on trying to nurture and stimulate European tech and the focus on AI sovereignty and building a tech stack here in Europe. You listed in The US. Did you feel any pressure at all to go public in Europe to have, you know, a foot in Europe as well, or was it something you even considered?