00:14:22 · Tommy Stadlen, Jack Zhang, Cameron McLain
[00:14:22] S0: So there's not enough money there to make it a sensible decision to offer someone you've just met two million dollars. [00:14:26] S1: Yeah, so then uh, and I we were pretty shocked and we were like, this can't be true. Uh, you know, and and you know, and then she said, well, why don't we just keep talking about it tomorrow uh in law school? So we all went to university in Melbourne together. So when we went back early, 8 30 in the morning, went to law school at the library, then you know, we can still walk in. And um, and uh then we talk about it. Uh, you know, her husband was there strongly against the idea of doing and uh and then she ended the day she said, Well, um, that's okay. I mean, if you don't want to invest, I'm just gonna invest my family's money. And so, and then she said, I also want to join you guys as well. Wow. Um so um, and we were like, Yeah, I mean, we feel kind of bad if we lose all your money. So you might just join the company if we, you know, lose your money. At least you know that we spent 200% of our effort in in trying to make it successful. [00:15:22] S2: But she she's obviously got a great eye, but what did you say in that meeting? You must have been incredibly convincing.
00:15:22 · Cameron McLain, Jack Zhang, Tommy Stadlen
[00:15:22] S2: But she she's obviously got a great eye, but what did you say in that meeting? You must have been incredibly convincing. [00:15:27] S1: I think it just happened that she always she also just wanted to do something. Yeah. And you know, like sometimes when you're raising money, it's not about how great the founder is, that the VCs already have some ideas and and just somebody showed up at the right spot at the right time. I feel like I'm kind of the guy that just show up at the exact right moment that she feels itchy of doing something. [00:15:50] S0: So wait, what happened? So then you you hang out at law school, she's like, no, I really do want to invest. And then what happened? [00:15:55] S1: We got a term agreed um by 11:30 uh a.m. [00:16:01] S0: Yeah. Um million dollars for how much? [00:16:03] S1: 1 million dollar for 20% of company and a five million dollar post. Um, we didn't have a company registered at the time. Um then I think by Monday, midday, a million US dollars wired into my personal bank account without anything signed. [00:16:16] S0: She just wired a million dollars into your personal account with nothing signed. [00:16:20] S1: Yeah. [00:16:21] S0: That's wild. [00:16:22] S1: Well, I mean, obviously she knows Max. Max is a friend, so I'm a friend of friends. So it's not like we're completely strangers. And how much is that million dollars worth today? [00:16:30] S0: Or how much would it have been? [00:16:31] S1: Probably half a billion dollars. [00:16:32] S0: So she turned a million dollars into half a billion dollars as an angel investor.
00:16:32 · Tommy Stadlen, Jack Zhang, Cameron McLain
[00:16:32] S0: So she turned a million dollars into half a billion dollars as an angel investor. [00:16:36] S1: Yeah. And then she sold a bunch over the years, right? So unbelievable. [00:16:39] S0: And then you've also had probably still have half a billion stock. Still half a billion? Wow. So maybe into a billion. And and and so you've also I think it's gonna be a lot more than that. A lot more. So that's probably one of the best angel investments in the history of investing. But you've also had, I would say, some of the worst uh decisions ever by venture investors. Inevitably, venture investors have to pass on a bunch of stuff which becomes successful. But you you had uh uh a term sheet pooled, is that right? From a venture investor really early that could have turned out. [00:17:06] S1: Yeah, we had we have millions, we have multiple term sheet pooled in our journey. [00:17:12] S2: That's quite unusual. [00:17:13] S1: You don't hear that. I don't know. Yeah, we kind of uh maybe a bad luck, and then we had we had this a few times. Including early on, so people who could early on and even when we have become very successful. [00:17:24] S2: Yeah, wow. And many of them then came back after putting term sheets and tried to invest and didn't invest later on. I also heard.
00:17:24 · Cameron McLain, Jack Zhang, Tommy Stadlen
[00:17:24] S2: Yeah, wow. And many of them then came back after putting term sheets and tried to invest and didn't invest later on. I also heard. [00:17:29] S1: Yeah. I mean, like, you know, I've I think a couple of VCs in Australia, and when I said I wanted to do something cross-border payment, you know, Australia is more of a software market, right? So you have the like of Alasing Canva culture and safety culture, the bunch of software companies. So VCs are more familiar with software. And it's like somebody wanted to build a fintech company in Australia, highly regulated. Um, it would just never such thing just never succeeded in in in the VC history in Australia, right? So it's quite weird. And out of the three biggest VCs, only one believed me, and obviously doing quite well. [00:18:02] S2: Do you hold a grudge for the port term sheets or business is business? [00:18:06] S1: I probably hold a little bit of that uh with the individual, not so much with the font. Right. Uh, I feel that's a bit of an integrity issue here. [00:18:15] S0: But you know for context for listeners not deeply immersed in kind of venture world, is it's not the dumb thing to sign a term sheet saying you're gonna invest and especially if you're kind of doing multiple of this to many different companies. [00:18:28] S1: Of course not, yeah. Which in the case to us is the same person, keep doing this.
00:18:28 · Jack Zhang, Tommy Stadlen
[00:18:28] S1: Of course not, yeah. Which in the case to us is the same person, keep doing this. [00:18:32] S0: Last one on venture investors. Um, because I think it's kind of interesting, is that during your gro some of your growth rounds, some of your investors were not really actually backing numbers, you know, you still hadn't really nailed the business, but people like Yuri Milner at DST, as I understand it, really backed, you know, you they went deep on you and your amazing life story, they backed your vision. [00:18:52] S1: Yeah, I don't know how Yuri investing uh is kind of interesting to me. I wouldn't do that myself. I mean, I wouldn't be able to throw a two-hour conversation. And essentially, like I met Yuri and Tom Stafford and John Lingford together. Um, with you know, during a two-hour conversation, the first hour is John and Tom asked me about the business. Uh, Yuri didn't speak a word. And then Yuri spent the next 30 minutes just asking me how I grew up, all the stuff I did, what I just told you about, you know, how I actually lost the financial support, how do so many businesses. Uh, on the back of that, she just offered me to invest um at uh 1.1 billion. Um invest $100 million. Amazing.
00:18:52 · Jack Zhang, Tommy Stadlen
[00:18:52] S1: Yeah, I don't know how Yuri investing uh is kind of interesting to me. I wouldn't do that myself. I mean, I wouldn't be able to throw a two-hour conversation. And essentially, like I met Yuri and Tom Stafford and John Lingford together. Um, with you know, during a two-hour conversation, the first hour is John and Tom asked me about the business. Uh, Yuri didn't speak a word. And then Yuri spent the next 30 minutes just asking me how I grew up, all the stuff I did, what I just told you about, you know, how I actually lost the financial support, how do so many businesses. Uh, on the back of that, she just offered me to invest um at uh 1.1 billion. Um invest $100 million. Amazing. [00:19:37] S0: Um so you kind of get through all of this. You you've come through this unbelievable life journey, you've raised money, company almost dies multiple times. You start really scaling the business now, like very, very big revenue. Um, but the kind of drama's not over because you're a Silicon Valley outsider. There's some really well-funded Silicon Valley insiders competing with you, and they've got venture capital investors who don't want to see you succeed. And so those guys uh, you know, have started slinging, you know, accusations against the company that like, you know, it's giving US comp uh US uh data to the Chinese Communist Party and all this kind of stuff. That must have been like a very intense thing to go through of having all of those accusations thrown at you. What's it like personally as a leader?