00:29:10 · Dan Rogers
[00:29:10] S0: Yeah, it's interesting. I'm glad that someone from Sequoia said it, because I say the same thing. I think that's really the, you know, the say is the test is like, the models will get better, and is that a good thing for you? And so the way I kinda think about it is in the next phase, the piece that AI is gonna be doing, yes, they're gonna be generating very impressive answers. Right? And they're gonna be generating very impressive code and that's great. But the models are becoming somewhat interchangeable. The value that's gonna be created is turning that intelligence into action inside those workflows in a company. So for an AI agent to be useful in enterprise, they need first and foremost context. So it's like, what's the company trying to achieve? Who owns that? How has this been done in the past? What's already been decided? Which systems do I need to work with? Are there any rules of the road I need to follow? Which knowledge base should we use? Which teams do I need to involve? Then it needs a harness, so context plus harness. Harness is this kind of coordination work, is taking action, involving those right people, making sure the sequencing is right, making sure that it's all governed, observable, and trainable, and improvable. So the enduring value for Asana and for enterprise AI is not gonna be in the raw output of the models, which is going to get better and better. It's actually how do you turn that intelligence with the harness into repeatable, useful, accountable process that makes the work flow. And so for me, it's a very easy answer to that question, which is Asana is on the right side of this equation. As the models get better, we will get better. And you see that in the performance every day of, you know, our AI teammates. You see it in the performance every day of our AI chief of staff and slew of new products that we've launched today for IT service management, which we call ASM, for r and d teams, which we call command, for client delivery teams, which are calling Asana client management. We have created bespoke solutions for them. There is the workflow and the harness against the things that they care about, the jobs to be done that they care about the most. And as the models get better, all of those solutions are gonna get better.
00:31:29 · Guillaume Moubeche
[00:31:29] S1: And do you feel like with the open source models getting like closer and closer to the frontier lab, that the LLMs in general, like are gonna become a commodity and that price will eventually go down? Or do you feel like eventually like companies like OpenAI and Anthropic, because they have such a also like high valuation and necessity to increase their revenue, like they're not gonna be able to drive the cost down to a certain extent, and they will have like to maybe like diversify a little bit like their source of revenue. So how do you see it like from a strategical perspective, like do you feel Anthropic and OpenAI can eventually become competitors? Or do you think that, you know, like with all the open source model, you'll be able, as you mentioned earlier, to eventually like switch when needs to be and that's it.
00:32:26 · Dan Rogers
[00:32:26] S0: Yeah, maybe I'll answer it a few ways. So the cost per given quality is already going down dramatically. And so then I think for us, you know, the model is like the fuel in the car. And so you want the most performant fuel for a given price. And so you can change the fuel, you can go to a different gas station, change the fuel type. That's really how we think about it. And so for Asana, our equation is going to be not just what's the cheapest model because we want the highest quality outcome for our customers too. So for a given quality, what's the right mix of models? Some models are gonna be better at some task types, some models are gonna do other task types. So that stratification of models, almost like the, I guess, you know, the gatekeeping of this model goes to this, I think is gonna be a real competency for many companies. And on the kinda who wins maybe question that you had there, you know, I think there's room for all of the players, and we actually have different relationships with all of the players. You know, with Anthropic as an example, where they're really becoming strong distribution for us, it is a way that people are going to discover Asana as well. And, you know, some and many of these companies that you're mentioning are Asana's customers in turn because they also need to coordinate their human agent teams, and they find us to be the best multiplayer coordination ledger. So I mean, times for us. The great part about where Asana sits is it doesn't really matter to us which model prevails as long as the cost quality keeps improving of those models.
00:34:00 · Guillaume Moubeche, Dan Rogers
[00:34:00] S1: Makes a lot of sense. I like how on every question I ask you, always go back, you know, to the same principle of making your customers happy. Like I'm simplifying obviously, but I think it's great and it's super important like to go back to that foundation and that essence of highest quality possible for our customers, and then we'll deal in the background with the rest. [00:34:22] S0: Yeah, know, if I think if that's your North Star, a lot of decision making becomes very easy. [00:34:27] S1: Yeah. And as a CEO, I'm sure like in the last eighteen months, you've had like also like ups and downs. I was wanting to ask you, what was the hardest time for you or like problem that you had to solve since you joined? [00:34:41] S0: I think the piece I love is suspending, it's almost like you've gotta have this mastery of your own mind. So suspending everything that you know in order to stay clean and let the mind absorb new things. And so I think it's very easy to, I love kind of what your Jeff Bezos quote is, I need to look that one up. But it's very easy to let your past successes dictate your future. And I'm very mindful of not allowing that to be the case. So I almost have to have a, certainly in the beginning, a bit of a ritual of casting aside everything I knew and then really being very curious with myself about how I was reacting to things or how I was interpreting things.
00:34:41 · Dan Rogers, Guillaume Moubeche
[00:34:41] S0: I think the piece I love is suspending, it's almost like you've gotta have this mastery of your own mind. So suspending everything that you know in order to stay clean and let the mind absorb new things. And so I think it's very easy to, I love kind of what your Jeff Bezos quote is, I need to look that one up. But it's very easy to let your past successes dictate your future. And I'm very mindful of not allowing that to be the case. So I almost have to have a, certainly in the beginning, a bit of a ritual of casting aside everything I knew and then really being very curious with myself about how I was reacting to things or how I was interpreting things. [00:35:23] S1: I'll say this as a compliment, but you'll be a terrible French person because you never complain. Even when I ask you that first time, know, like you always have a very like positive way of looking at things, it seems you take a lot of ownership in your decision and in your action, and you seem to always like look at the bright side. So it's very, very like inspiring. And yeah, I can tell like people at Asana are lucky to have you as a CEO. A quick question that I like to ask is- Although [00:35:58] S0: I've met many French optimists, so I'm not sure, maybe, I don't know. [00:36:02] S1: That doesn't exist. [00:36:04] S0: Okay. [00:36:04] S1: You know, we were born complaining, so. The question I also like to ask is if you had like a magic wand right now and you could solve like one big problem that you are facing, like what would that be?
00:36:04 · Guillaume Moubeche, Dan Rogers
[00:36:04] S1: You know, we were born complaining, so. The question I also like to ask is if you had like a magic wand right now and you could solve like one big problem that you are facing, like what would that be? [00:36:20] S0: I think maybe my magic wand is like, so I'm so excited about all of these bets that we're making. I'd love to have a little peek into the future to see how they play out. And so maybe a magic wand allows me to kind of peek around the corners and see, you know, which of the bets is working the best. Certainly, think we have a lot of ambition right now. And, you know, arrive at this podcast as I say at a point where we're five new products today. And so I'm curious about how that will all play out with a burning curiosity. So right now, the way you're catching me, think my my magic wand has to be cast around the corner, maybe six months time and see how it all played out, which things were taking it off, which things did we need to iterate on and pivot on. And so probably, maybe it allows me to have a little peek into the future, something like that. [00:37:12] S1: I love it. We're almost running out of time. So the question I have for you is like, where can people follow like your updates and Asana's update? Like what's the best way to actually like see in the future for those who will follow later? [00:37:25] S0: Yeah. So obviously we're available on all the socials, asana.com is really our, you know, major source. And then you can follow me on LinkedIn is where I, you know, I have a lot of my dialogue. So really enjoyed it, Guillaume.