All-In with Chamath, Jason, Sacks & Friedberg
00:34:42 · David Sacks, Jason Calacanis
[00:34:42] S1: You know, Chamath, a lot of people are looking at that number and they're trading these stocks down based on that. I kind of view it the opposite, which is I don't... These are smart companies. I don't think they'd be making those kinds of investments unless they thought there was ROI there. And so [00:34:57] S0: Well, obviously is ROI based on the token usage and the fact that only one or 2% of people in corporate America are even using these tools. We are greatly underestimating the uptick here. Claude hasn't even launched a bot yet, a Grok bot. And OpenAI just launched theirs and it's in like a a small use case when a 100,000,000 or 200,000,000 white collar workers Right. Subscribe to, say, the Office Suite. Right? The similar Office three sixty five thing happens in corporate America. Everybody's got five agents running. I think the utilization of these things is going 500 x. The token usage [00:35:31] S1: is I think that's right. Then [00:35:33] S0: x. That means we're gonna have Yeah. Not enough compute, and everybody's got the build out completely wrong. There won't be enough. And people are gonna look back on this moment and say, why didn't you build more compute? Why didn't you spend more on CapEx?
00:35:33 · Jason Calacanis, Chamath Palihapitiya
[00:35:33] S0: x. That means we're gonna have Yeah. Not enough compute, and everybody's got the build out completely wrong. There won't be enough. And people are gonna look back on this moment and say, why didn't you build more compute? Why didn't you spend more on CapEx? [00:35:47] S2: You're absolutely right, Jason. The problem is the regulatory pushback. The the amount of approvals and the ability for utilities to find the staff and the ability to actually turn these things on and then the ability to get the capital equipment you need, it just isn't there right now. So we as a country are sort of clogged up. We can't do it even if we wanted to do it.
00:36:08 · Jason Calacanis
[00:36:08] S0: Friedberg, you know, the the other issue here is if we are not spending enough building this out and the country, a large percentage of of of the country believes in socialism and is against the oligarchs, both Republican, independent, and Democratic oligarchs, this is is what they think of us and of the leaders in our industry and other industries. This is really dangerous because we're not gonna be able to to build out the compute we need. And what does that do to the entire industry in the next three to five years if we if we can't build out this? And how do we turn that narrative around so people are like, yeah, we should have data centers? I have a view that humans try to organize into groups, organizations to try and create power that benefits the members of that group. So, you know, we form tribes. We form communities. And in sense, governments are a form of an organization. It's an organizational coalition of individuals to achieve an objective for, in the case of a democracy, the majority of the voters. And as a result, organizations in a in a world of, you know, call it pseudo limited resources, compete with each other for those resources. Nonprofits, for profits, governments, they're all effectively competing for resources because the individuals that they represent, the interests of are gonna be served if they get more resource, they get more power, get more influence. So to some extent, the power of AI and the influence it enables in terms of media, in terms of capital accumulation, in terms of changing people's minds, in terms of aggregating resources through its competitive capacity, productivity, etcetera, makes it a bit of a threat to government organizations. And so to Chamath's point, if one of the manifestations of that is that AI is now accruing more interest from capital than governments, governments aren't gonna wanna let that happen. And the governments, whether they're right or left, are gonna fight for the AI to become either part of the government and the government to subsume the AI or control the AI organizations. And this is why I've kind of argued the case. I think that you're gonna end up seeing compute get regulated in the future where compute capacity is going to be assigned by government, and they're gonna pass laws to try and do that. Post production, that is.
00:38:41 · Jason Calacanis, Chamath Palihapitiya
Like, meaning, they're not gonna control the chips. They're gonna control the actual compute layer, and they're gonna determine who's gonna get access to what amount of compute, I think, for governments to compete. And I think one of the ways this is gonna play out to Chamath's point is in the near term in capital. There's more capital going to the AI organizations and the government. The governments aren't gonna wanna let that happen. So they're gonna try and stop the data centers because then [00:39:13] S2: I've never seen something in my adult working life where a complex of a handful of companies are effectively competing with governments now for capital because you've never seen companies in an organized manner have one very narrow thing that they need money for that is a one way bet on something that attracts the same amount of money that would otherwise go to a traditional two, three, four, five year, ten year bond auction. It's it's kinda nutty, actually. By the way, the [00:39:43] S0: story you're gonna hear from both sides is a story of which side benefits the people more, and that's gonna be the narrative argument, which is gonna be every side's gonna say the other side's lying. Because remember, if one side's lying and another side's not lying [00:39:58] S2: Yeah.
00:39:58 · Chamath Palihapitiya, Jason Calacanis, David Sacks
[00:39:58] S2: Yeah. [00:39:58] S0: The side that's not lying says, hey. Those guys are lying, and they're correct. The side that is lying de facto says that the other side is lying because they're liars. And so you'll hear both sides screaming, we are the better path for society. We are the better path for humanity. It's either government or private market AI, and that'll be the huge battle that's gonna brew over the next half decade. [00:40:22] S1: Wow. [00:40:23] S0: And we'll see which one Politicians are for sale and Dario and Anthropic should start buying just like the right did. [00:40:30] S1: Oh, they already have. [00:40:31] S0: I don't see them with champions. Where are their champions? Do they have champions yet? [00:40:36] S1: For sure. Listen. Anthropic, even as a startup, prioritized government affairs. They were very active during the Biden administration. All those former Biden officials who were doing AI in the Biden administration immediately joined Anthropic [00:40:51] S0: My point, Sacks, is that you don't [00:40:53] S1: the end of twenty twenty four. [00:40:54] S0: No. No. I get that. But you don't see them doing what you guys did, hosting a fundraiser for Trump, being out there publicly in front of it. You don't see them [00:41:01] S1: out there. But they've they've spent... They've created packs. Sure. And all sorts of entities and nonprofits, all NGOs, all that kind of stuff, and they have been massively funding it. They have a huge government [00:41:12] S0: fairy you guys did, like, in, you know, getting out there and
00:41:12 · Jason Calacanis, David Sacks, Chamath Palihapitiya
[00:41:12] S0: fairy you guys did, like, in, you know, getting out there and [00:41:15] S1: What do you mean you... I don't know what you mean by you guys. I [00:41:20] S0: did were public about your support for Trump. I've never seen Dario publicly come out for any politics. [00:41:26] S1: Yeah. Exactly. I'm not I'm not... Can you let me explain? Not a corporation. [00:41:29] S0: Of course. [00:41:30] S1: I'm just one person who has views and, yeah, I support certain candidates and I do fundraisers for candidates. I'm not, like, seeking regulatory capture. I'm just one person No. [00:41:39] S0: I'm I'm saying why hasn't Dario or the other founders done that? Why haven't they said we choose this candidate? We choose these candidates? [00:41:45] S2: We don't know that they haven't. [00:41:46] S0: How do we know they done it publicly because we've never heard them do it. That's my Sure. But [00:41:50] S1: they have given huge amounts of money [00:41:52] S0: to us. Agree they've done it properly. [00:41:53] S1: Which which is public information and those PACs have supported candidates. [00:41:56] S0: If they're gonna make a run at this, they should do it publicly. [00:41:59] S1: There's a huge revolving door where Anthropic has been snapping up every former official. First, it was the Biden administration. Now, frankly, they're hiring a lot of former Trump administration officials. [00:42:11] S0: Oh, really?