The Nichole Wischoff Podcast
00:42:16 · Nichole Wischoff, Alan Chang
[00:42:16] S0: And [00:42:18] S1: we could have easily done just another fintech and that probably is a much easier path. But but that's just not our motivation. Right? I think in our view, like, Revlon is the company that would dominate fintech. Yep. And there doesn't... You know, there is no opportunity to build a trillion dollar company in fintech anymore. And the only reason I will leave Revloom is to solve an even bigger problem, right? So basically in a Venn diagram of you know, must be another trillion dollar opportunity and, you know, impactful and complex problem, I think we landed on an an energy. [00:43:02] S0: Yeah. Was this after ChadGBT, where all of a sudden everyone was talking about data centers and need energy for AI and compute? Or was this even before that where you're like, hey. We've got before. Oh, wow. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I was... I always wonder. I'm like, oh, it's 2022. I don't know. And was that largely... I mean, was it UK specific for you where you were like, even if we just solve this for The UK and, like, grid capacity and cheaper energy, then we've got a trillion dollar company? Or was it beyond that?
00:43:02 · Nichole Wischoff, Alan Chang
[00:43:02] S0: Yeah. Was this after ChadGBT, where all of a sudden everyone was talking about data centers and need energy for AI and compute? Or was this even before that where you're like, hey. We've got before. Oh, wow. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I was... I always wonder. I'm like, oh, it's 2022. I don't know. And was that largely... I mean, was it UK specific for you where you were like, even if we just solve this for The UK and, like, grid capacity and cheaper energy, then we've got a trillion dollar company? Or was it beyond that? [00:43:29] S1: I think we we we had global ambitions ambitions on day one. So we wanted to build the number one energy company in the world from the And get the reason we chose UK as the first market is, UK is actually a very interesting markets from an energy perspective, right? So if you look at the power prices today, UK has the highest power price in all of developed economy, right, by quite a margin. So if you compare, let's say, UK power prices to, let's say, America, it's about three times higher. But UK is also the birthplace of the modern grid as we know it, right? For example, the first coal power plant, the first Nioga power plant, or even the first modern grid, right, was The UK was the birthplace. So we feel like UK is a great first market for us. And if we can make it work in UK, we can also make it work everywhere else.
00:43:29 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:43:29] S1: I think we we we had global ambitions ambitions on day one. So we wanted to build the number one energy company in the world from the And get the reason we chose UK as the first market is, UK is actually a very interesting markets from an energy perspective, right? So if you look at the power prices today, UK has the highest power price in all of developed economy, right, by quite a margin. So if you compare, let's say, UK power prices to, let's say, America, it's about three times higher. But UK is also the birthplace of the modern grid as we know it, right? For example, the first coal power plant, the first Nioga power plant, or even the first modern grid, right, was The UK was the birthplace. So we feel like UK is a great first market for us. And if we can make it work in UK, we can also make it work everywhere else. [00:44:39] S0: Yeah. A big hurdle, and I'm sure you'll deal with this in every market you enter and even now in The UK, is obviously the regulatory complexities. Would you say that it is worse than fintech in your time at Revolut, or would you say it's not as bad? [00:44:53] S1: Yeah. I I would say the regulation is not as complex as banking. However, the engineering complexity is much higher.
00:44:53 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:44:53] S1: Yeah. I I would say the regulation is not as complex as banking. However, the engineering complexity is much higher. [00:45:06] S0: Yep. In The UK... So I know a lot about our grid in The US, our existing infrastructure, and and the utilities and things like that. But in The UK, I guess, is it similar? Like, are you've taken a consumer approach to this. Like, you could have done b to b. You could have built these AI data centers or, you know, done anything. Is it the case that you're also working with utilities? Do you replace them eventually? Or is it just, like, what... What's the? It looks like now... Well, I'm excited to talk about the energy network, but there's big plans here. But, like, currently, right now, what is the state of the state in terms of, like, the key partnerships you have to have? [00:45:37] S1: Yeah. So we are the utility in The UK. So UK is one of the most liberalized markets in the world. I think if you had to draw a comparison, it's very similar to ERCOT in The US and I assume you're in California. [00:45:54] S0: Yes. [00:45:55] S1: Where, effectively, you have, you know, one regulated monopoly. Whereas in markets like, yeah, ERCOT, UK, or most part in in Europe, you can compete... You can basically become the utility.
00:45:55 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:45:55] S1: Where, effectively, you have, you know, one regulated monopoly. Whereas in markets like, yeah, ERCOT, UK, or most part in in Europe, you can compete... You can basically become the utility. [00:46:10] S0: Okay. So, yeah, easier path there. And then was the idea always to go full stack? Because I'm sure, as you mentioned prior, like, you're entering industry you don't know much about. And then as you're kind of unfolding new learnings in the market, did you go into this with an initial idea, or did you go into it with an open mind thinking, we're just gonna figure out what to build, but let's just double click on this topic of energy, the grid, and a consumer company, and then go from there? Or was was this... Like, was the idea to go full stack basically because you realize it's the only way to do this right? [00:46:40] S1: Yeah. I think we we we wanted to build full stack from day one. Right? Like, so what we learned from from Revolut was, you know, in the industry where it's fragmented, low NPS, and high cost, the only way to win is basically build a fully integrated company, right? And this is how you can expand your margins. [00:47:08] S0: A quick thank you to our sponsor, Roe. Roe, the very best place to open a banking account for your startup, earn cash back, and yield to reserve your company's runway. Several of our portfolio companies use Roe and love it, and many switching. More info on Roe if you wanna sign up in the show notes.
00:47:08 · Nichole Wischoff, Alan Chang
[00:47:08] S0: A quick thank you to our sponsor, Roe. Roe, the very best place to open a banking account for your startup, earn cash back, and yield to reserve your company's runway. Several of our portfolio companies use Roe and love it, and many switching. More info on Roe if you wanna sign up in the show notes. [00:47:28] S1: You know, pass some of that margin back to customers, and they can grow very fast. Right? And also improve customer experience that way too. So we knew this is the way for energy as well. What we didn't know is how exactly to do that. So this is something we had to figure out as we go. [00:47:44] S0: Yeah. So fast forward now. You're almost four years in, 400,000,000 in revenue. What is the product that consumers are buying? Like, what's driving your revenue, I guess? And how how deep in the stack are you as you've... You know, if you fast forward four years? [00:47:58] S1: So today, we build our own power generation. So we have a engineering team, mostly ex SpaceX or Tesla engineers building power generation from scratch. And we're able to build it approximately 30% less cheaper than what the market can build on a per megawatt peak basis. Which roughly translates to 30% cheaper on a kilowatt hour basis. So this gives us one of the advantages of low cost power. [00:48:34] S0: I mean, are you able to share exactly how? Or is this just a secret sauce we don't share? But that's a pretty dramatic savings.