The Nichole Wischoff Podcast
00:39:15 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:39:15] S1: So he was probably my second batch of people I hired. First batch was basically a complete failure. So he was probably the first successful hire I made. And yeah, we worked together in a bunch of projects and I wanted to work with someone who was very ambitious and even after making some money, he's still, like, very, very hungry and also, like, very, very, very smart. Mhmm. And I think Charles is one of the very, very few people who who are like that. [00:39:53] S0: That's amazing. I was gonna say, where would you say you compliment each other? Like, where is he strong that maybe you're not? I feel like these things are sort of like a marriage. So where would you say the balance is there? [00:40:03] S1: Yeah. So I I I I love pushing boundaries. So I I ask why can't this be done faster or why this... Why can't we do more at the same time? And then he he pushes back a lot on, you know, sometimes I I stretch the team so much that it's... Maybe it's... No. Maybe stretch your goal so much that maybe it's like, you know, actually not possible, whereas he tries to bring it back to reality. So I'd say, like, yeah, we we we we cover it... Complement each other quite well on that front.
00:40:03 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:40:03] S1: Yeah. So I I I I love pushing boundaries. So I I ask why can't this be done faster or why this... Why can't we do more at the same time? And then he he pushes back a lot on, you know, sometimes I I stretch the team so much that it's... Maybe it's... No. Maybe stretch your goal so much that maybe it's like, you know, actually not possible, whereas he tries to bring it back to reality. So I'd say, like, yeah, we we we we cover it... Complement each other quite well on that front. [00:40:38] S0: Yeah. That's amazing. So you... It sounds like it's been almost four years, 2022. You start Fuse Energy, and you have since raised a 170,000,000, 70,000,000 recently. So congratulations. 400,000,000 in revenue in a very short time, I think, since launch in maybe '23. I wanna go back to the beginning. So what led to you leaving Revolut and starting, of all things, an an energy business, which, by the way, definitely needed in the world, so high priority, but very different from your background. So what sort of led to this this change in this idea?
00:40:38 · Nichole Wischoff, Alan Chang
[00:40:38] S0: Yeah. That's amazing. So you... It sounds like it's been almost four years, 2022. You start Fuse Energy, and you have since raised a 170,000,000, 70,000,000 recently. So congratulations. 400,000,000 in revenue in a very short time, I think, since launch in maybe '23. I wanna go back to the beginning. So what led to you leaving Revolut and starting, of all things, an an energy business, which, by the way, definitely needed in the world, so high priority, but very different from your background. So what sort of led to this this change in this idea? [00:41:12] S1: Yeah, so first of all, I'm a big believer in you can learn anything and you can just, know, now it's a meme, but you can just do things. Before Revver I had no experience in finance or banking, or even technology for that matter. And obviously before Fuse I had no experience in energy, right? But I do have now experience in technology. So for me it's just, I think what excites me and gets me out of bed every day is A, the complexity of the problem and B, the impact of the problem. And essentially I've been thinking a lot to myself like what, and this is something Charles and I discuss when we decide to do something together, is like what are the most important problem in the next twenty five years, right? And I think we agreed energy and AI are the top two problems to solve. [00:42:16] S0: And
00:42:16 · Nichole Wischoff, Alan Chang
[00:42:16] S0: And [00:42:18] S1: we could have easily done just another fintech and that probably is a much easier path. But but that's just not our motivation. Right? I think in our view, like, Revlon is the company that would dominate fintech. Yep. And there doesn't... You know, there is no opportunity to build a trillion dollar company in fintech anymore. And the only reason I will leave Revloom is to solve an even bigger problem, right? So basically in a Venn diagram of you know, must be another trillion dollar opportunity and, you know, impactful and complex problem, I think we landed on an an energy. [00:43:02] S0: Yeah. Was this after ChadGBT, where all of a sudden everyone was talking about data centers and need energy for AI and compute? Or was this even before that where you're like, hey. We've got before. Oh, wow. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I was... I always wonder. I'm like, oh, it's 2022. I don't know. And was that largely... I mean, was it UK specific for you where you were like, even if we just solve this for The UK and, like, grid capacity and cheaper energy, then we've got a trillion dollar company? Or was it beyond that?
00:43:02 · Nichole Wischoff, Alan Chang
[00:43:02] S0: Yeah. Was this after ChadGBT, where all of a sudden everyone was talking about data centers and need energy for AI and compute? Or was this even before that where you're like, hey. We've got before. Oh, wow. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I was... I always wonder. I'm like, oh, it's 2022. I don't know. And was that largely... I mean, was it UK specific for you where you were like, even if we just solve this for The UK and, like, grid capacity and cheaper energy, then we've got a trillion dollar company? Or was it beyond that? [00:43:29] S1: I think we we we had global ambitions ambitions on day one. So we wanted to build the number one energy company in the world from the And get the reason we chose UK as the first market is, UK is actually a very interesting markets from an energy perspective, right? So if you look at the power prices today, UK has the highest power price in all of developed economy, right, by quite a margin. So if you compare, let's say, UK power prices to, let's say, America, it's about three times higher. But UK is also the birthplace of the modern grid as we know it, right? For example, the first coal power plant, the first Nioga power plant, or even the first modern grid, right, was The UK was the birthplace. So we feel like UK is a great first market for us. And if we can make it work in UK, we can also make it work everywhere else.
00:43:29 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:43:29] S1: I think we we we had global ambitions ambitions on day one. So we wanted to build the number one energy company in the world from the And get the reason we chose UK as the first market is, UK is actually a very interesting markets from an energy perspective, right? So if you look at the power prices today, UK has the highest power price in all of developed economy, right, by quite a margin. So if you compare, let's say, UK power prices to, let's say, America, it's about three times higher. But UK is also the birthplace of the modern grid as we know it, right? For example, the first coal power plant, the first Nioga power plant, or even the first modern grid, right, was The UK was the birthplace. So we feel like UK is a great first market for us. And if we can make it work in UK, we can also make it work everywhere else. [00:44:39] S0: Yeah. A big hurdle, and I'm sure you'll deal with this in every market you enter and even now in The UK, is obviously the regulatory complexities. Would you say that it is worse than fintech in your time at Revolut, or would you say it's not as bad? [00:44:53] S1: Yeah. I I would say the regulation is not as complex as banking. However, the engineering complexity is much higher.