The Nichole Wischoff Podcast
00:30:35 · Nichole Wischoff, Alan Chang
[00:30:35] S0: that. So [00:30:38] S1: So in fact that's how we distinguish. So for example, the first few utility scale projects was completely equity funded. And now we're going to raise our first debt facility for future projects. So yes, capital intensive, but people tend to forget venture capital is actually just a very, very tiny percentage of capital allocation for the big... From the big, you know, LPs. Right? You know, ultimately, is, you know, infrastructure is a large portion portion of that. [00:31:20] S0: Yes. No. Absolutely. That's like building a data center. Like, it's like most of it is. I guess for your first project, you'll probably be 50% equity, but then that can go down dramatically to maybe 20, 10, and then it's entirely debt. So not great venture investments, I'd say, even though some funds are are dabbling there. In terms of your growth, you know, over the next one or two years, so do you plan on having full scale offices in Ireland and Spain and The US? Do you wanna be... I know you've got a small New York one, but do you wanna be centralized in The UK? Or what are your plans for that as you scale the team? [00:31:52] S1: So we hire where the talent wants to wants to stay. So we we have no dogma in, you know, where we wanna build. Okay. So right now, just to give you an idea, we have roughly 40% of the team is in The UK. 60% is distributed across Europe and [00:32:11] S0: Oh, wow. Okay. [00:32:12] S1: The States. So we hire... Like, when we make an offer, we always offer someone to... We either relocate, right, you, or you can stay where you are.
00:32:12 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:32:12] S1: The States. So we hire... Like, when we make an offer, we always offer someone to... We either relocate, right, you, or you can stay where you are. [00:32:25] S0: That feels very anti Silicon Valley at this current moment. I'm curious. Was this the Revolut way, or is it just, like, something personal to you where you're like, this is a part of our culture. Like, we don't wanna make you uproot your entire life and family to come work here, and we can still It's [00:32:38] S1: a it's a pragmatic way. [00:32:41] S0: Fair. [00:32:41] S1: Right? Not not everyone wants to move. Like like, it it is not up to me to decide where you wanna stay. Right? [00:32:47] S0: Yeah. Yes. [00:32:48] S1: Are you to... Like, we will never never... Like, I think it's very dumb to... You know, imagine you meet a talented engineer. Right? And talented engineer say, okay. I I don't wanna move. It'd be very dumb to say, oh, no. You can't join us because you don't wanna move. [00:33:02] S0: Yeah. You you would hate 90% of what's going on in San Francisco at this moment, but everyone's very, gotta be in the office, a 100% of the team. If you won't move, no job. And it's pretty extreme, but this comes in waves. I think everyone's so excited about the AI opportunities that that's just the case currently. And I mean, I just moved back. [00:33:20] S1: Angela, they can jump to you.
00:33:20 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:33:20] S1: Angela, they can jump to you. [00:33:23] S0: Yes. No. For sure. For sure. And get more more. That's amazing. In terms of... Use this as a plug for you. So in terms of just key open roles or people that you're looking for right now, if they're listening, like, maybe what are the, like, top priorities for hiring right now, and where can they find you to apply? [00:33:40] S1: Yeah. So we're hiring basically any form of engineer. Right? From projects engineering, so such as electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, civil engineers. And the software engineers, we're hiring back end engineers, AI engineers, fine engineers. We're hiring across the board. And if you're a talented engineer, you know, plea... Please please consider joining us. [00:34:04] S0: No. That's awesome. And then last question I wanna skip it is, long term, is this a public company? Like, what do you... And is this the next trillion dollar company? Like, how long do you think that'll take as you get there? [00:34:14] S1: So we hope to get there, you know, maybe in the next ten years. Now whether it be a public company or not, right now there's no real upside to do it. There's plenty of liquidity in the private markets. We just don't really see a need. Maybe that'll change in the future. Who knows? But right now, no plans.
00:34:14 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:34:14] S1: So we hope to get there, you know, maybe in the next ten years. Now whether it be a public company or not, right now there's no real upside to do it. There's plenty of liquidity in the private markets. We just don't really see a need. Maybe that'll change in the future. Who knows? But right now, no plans. [00:34:43] S0: Yeah. No. That... That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for for joining us today, and congratulations on all of your success. I will certainly be watching as you scale. And then when you come to US, you've gotta reach out and don't be a stranger. I'm sure you'll be in California. But but great luck, and obviously, great story, and congratulations. You start Fuse Energy. You have since raised a 170,000,000, 70,000,000 recently, 400,000,000 in revenue in a very short time, I think, since launching maybe '23. So what led to you leaving Revolut and starting, of all things, an an energy business? [00:35:15] S1: Charles and I discussed the slide to do something together. It's like, what are the most important problem in the next twenty five years? [00:35:21] S0: Was this after ChadGBT, or was this even before that where you're like, hey. [00:35:25] S1: We've got [00:35:25] S0: before. Oh, wow. Interesting. Okay. [00:35:27] S1: There is no clear mix of technology that can get us to a 100% renewable at low cost.
00:35:27 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:35:27] S1: There is no clear mix of technology that can get us to a 100% renewable at low cost. [00:35:33] S0: So you've raised a 170,000,000 so far from great funds. What do you think in terms of capital intensity it requires to really, like, reach a scale of this? Alan, thank you so much for joining the show. It is wonderful to meet you. I've actually been following you for quite some time as I, in a past life, built a neo bank that Walmart bought called One Finance. So not exactly Revolut, but following the company. And so I... While I want to focus entirely on Fuze and all things energy, because I think it's very, very high priority in the world right now, I did briefly want to hear your background. It looks like Revolut was maybe your first job out of school back '15. That's been quite a ride for seven years. So one, wanted to learn more about you, Alan, background prior to Fuze, and then dive into all things Fuze energy, the story, and all things just related to energy. [00:36:27] S1: Sure. So... Yeah. So first of all, thanks for having me. So indeed, you're you're right. My my first job is actually in Revolut. So I joined Revolut Triadoc College. So, obviously, tons of learnings. But... Yeah. So I think key learning is how to build a, you know, regulated company full stack from from scratch. [00:36:53] S0: What number I [00:36:54] S1: think I'm not learning strategy.
00:36:54 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:36:54] S1: think I'm not learning strategy. [00:36:56] S0: Were you? And, like, where was the... I guess, what was the thesis of the company at the time? Because I know now it's got several products, and there's crypto, and there's all these layers. So what was the company up to? And I guess, did they find you, or did you find them? [00:37:07] S1: Yeah. So I was fifth employee at at Revolut. And so at the time, it was mostly firefighting rather than a clear road map. It was tons of operational problems that just needed to be solved and just, you know, picked bit by bit. But, yeah, at at the time, it wasn't super clear what Revloor can become. I think Nikola had a very good analogy. I think, in fact, we operated like bacteria, right? So essentially whenever there's food, that's where bacteria grows, right? Yeah. So that's kind of what we did. And we we didn't wanna be a bank initially, but now it's obviously completely opposite. So... Yeah. So it's it's it's it's going where the opportunity is. [00:38:04] S0: Yeah. Were you... Did you find a random job application that early, or did they find you? Like, how did you end up, like, being, wanna join a tech company right out of school versus a bank or, like, you know, something like that?