The Nichole Wischoff Podcast
00:28:26 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:28:26] S1: Yeah. So on SMRs, we actually did a deep dive in SMRs as well. It's actually public on, if you scroll down enough on my x feed. So the problem with SMOS is the cost of regulation doesn't scale down. So if you're trying to build a, let's say a normal nuclear power plant, and compare it to let's say SMR, the cost of regulations is a fixed cost. So actually on a percentage basis, the cost of regulation actually goes up as you build a smaller nuclear power plant. So SMRs right now doesn't make sense unless there's major regulation reform. Which we hear all the time, right, in the news. There's major nuclear reform coming. But until I I see that happen, know, right now, our view is, like, we're still bearish in nuclear until that happens. [00:29:21] S0: Yeah. There's... I was at Valor atomics also recently down in LA, and I mean, I think the amount of time you have to spend in DC, at least here in The US, is is astronomical. I think folks are obviously bullish in the new administration from this perspective, but to your point, who knows? And so it's a big risk and a big cost. Speaking of CapEx, though, so you've raised a 170,000,000 so far from great funds. What do you think in terms of capital intensity it requires to really, like, reach escape velocity? I mean, you guys are already valued at 5,000,000,000, but that could be a trillion. So, like, how much more capital do you think this requires?
00:29:21 · Nichole Wischoff, Alan Chang
[00:29:21] S0: Yeah. There's... I was at Valor atomics also recently down in LA, and I mean, I think the amount of time you have to spend in DC, at least here in The US, is is astronomical. I think folks are obviously bullish in the new administration from this perspective, but to your point, who knows? And so it's a big risk and a big cost. Speaking of CapEx, though, so you've raised a 170,000,000 so far from great funds. What do you think in terms of capital intensity it requires to really, like, reach escape velocity? I mean, you guys are already valued at 5,000,000,000, but that could be a trillion. So, like, how much more capital do you think this requires? [00:29:55] S1: Yeah. So I think I think it's important to distinguish between, like, equity and and and debt Yep. As well as, like, crypto markets. So there are pros and cons to each capital type, right? And for example, equity is great for zero to one type capital, right? So if you try and get to zero to one and you try and prove, let's say, a business model, x is [00:30:27] S0: When you probably can't even get a debt facility yet because there's not much [00:30:30] S1: Exactly, exactly. However, if we try to go from one to n, that is great for [00:30:35] S0: that. So
00:30:35 · Nichole Wischoff, Alan Chang
[00:30:35] S0: that. So [00:30:38] S1: So in fact that's how we distinguish. So for example, the first few utility scale projects was completely equity funded. And now we're going to raise our first debt facility for future projects. So yes, capital intensive, but people tend to forget venture capital is actually just a very, very tiny percentage of capital allocation for the big... From the big, you know, LPs. Right? You know, ultimately, is, you know, infrastructure is a large portion portion of that. [00:31:20] S0: Yes. No. Absolutely. That's like building a data center. Like, it's like most of it is. I guess for your first project, you'll probably be 50% equity, but then that can go down dramatically to maybe 20, 10, and then it's entirely debt. So not great venture investments, I'd say, even though some funds are are dabbling there. In terms of your growth, you know, over the next one or two years, so do you plan on having full scale offices in Ireland and Spain and The US? Do you wanna be... I know you've got a small New York one, but do you wanna be centralized in The UK? Or what are your plans for that as you scale the team? [00:31:52] S1: So we hire where the talent wants to wants to stay. So we we have no dogma in, you know, where we wanna build. Okay. So right now, just to give you an idea, we have roughly 40% of the team is in The UK. 60% is distributed across Europe and [00:32:11] S0: Oh, wow. Okay. [00:32:12] S1: The States. So we hire... Like, when we make an offer, we always offer someone to... We either relocate, right, you, or you can stay where you are.
00:32:12 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:32:12] S1: The States. So we hire... Like, when we make an offer, we always offer someone to... We either relocate, right, you, or you can stay where you are. [00:32:25] S0: That feels very anti Silicon Valley at this current moment. I'm curious. Was this the Revolut way, or is it just, like, something personal to you where you're like, this is a part of our culture. Like, we don't wanna make you uproot your entire life and family to come work here, and we can still It's [00:32:38] S1: a it's a pragmatic way. [00:32:41] S0: Fair. [00:32:41] S1: Right? Not not everyone wants to move. Like like, it it is not up to me to decide where you wanna stay. Right? [00:32:47] S0: Yeah. Yes. [00:32:48] S1: Are you to... Like, we will never never... Like, I think it's very dumb to... You know, imagine you meet a talented engineer. Right? And talented engineer say, okay. I I don't wanna move. It'd be very dumb to say, oh, no. You can't join us because you don't wanna move. [00:33:02] S0: Yeah. You you would hate 90% of what's going on in San Francisco at this moment, but everyone's very, gotta be in the office, a 100% of the team. If you won't move, no job. And it's pretty extreme, but this comes in waves. I think everyone's so excited about the AI opportunities that that's just the case currently. And I mean, I just moved back. [00:33:20] S1: Angela, they can jump to you.
00:33:20 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:33:20] S1: Angela, they can jump to you. [00:33:23] S0: Yes. No. For sure. For sure. And get more more. That's amazing. In terms of... Use this as a plug for you. So in terms of just key open roles or people that you're looking for right now, if they're listening, like, maybe what are the, like, top priorities for hiring right now, and where can they find you to apply? [00:33:40] S1: Yeah. So we're hiring basically any form of engineer. Right? From projects engineering, so such as electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, civil engineers. And the software engineers, we're hiring back end engineers, AI engineers, fine engineers. We're hiring across the board. And if you're a talented engineer, you know, plea... Please please consider joining us. [00:34:04] S0: No. That's awesome. And then last question I wanna skip it is, long term, is this a public company? Like, what do you... And is this the next trillion dollar company? Like, how long do you think that'll take as you get there? [00:34:14] S1: So we hope to get there, you know, maybe in the next ten years. Now whether it be a public company or not, right now there's no real upside to do it. There's plenty of liquidity in the private markets. We just don't really see a need. Maybe that'll change in the future. Who knows? But right now, no plans.
00:34:14 · Alan Chang, Nichole Wischoff
[00:34:14] S1: So we hope to get there, you know, maybe in the next ten years. Now whether it be a public company or not, right now there's no real upside to do it. There's plenty of liquidity in the private markets. We just don't really see a need. Maybe that'll change in the future. Who knows? But right now, no plans. [00:34:43] S0: Yeah. No. That... That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for for joining us today, and congratulations on all of your success. I will certainly be watching as you scale. And then when you come to US, you've gotta reach out and don't be a stranger. I'm sure you'll be in California. But but great luck, and obviously, great story, and congratulations. You start Fuse Energy. You have since raised a 170,000,000, 70,000,000 recently, 400,000,000 in revenue in a very short time, I think, since launching maybe '23. So what led to you leaving Revolut and starting, of all things, an an energy business? [00:35:15] S1: Charles and I discussed the slide to do something together. It's like, what are the most important problem in the next twenty five years? [00:35:21] S0: Was this after ChadGBT, or was this even before that where you're like, hey. [00:35:25] S1: We've got [00:35:25] S0: before. Oh, wow. Interesting. Okay. [00:35:27] S1: There is no clear mix of technology that can get us to a 100% renewable at low cost.