00:56:53 · Michael Sindicich, Miguel Armaza
[00:56:53] S1: Yep. [00:56:54] S0: Does that become a more dangerous competitor now? [00:56:57] S1: No. No. I think it's so different, the solution that we provide versus what they're providing. And I think, you know, if you're being taken private into more of like a PE type thing, you're probably gonna be focusing a lot on cost reduction. And, you know, you can either focus on cost reduction by leveraging AI and meeting less people, or you can focus on keeping all your people but scaling and growing faster. And I'm not nervous or worried about the solution that they have to be able to compete with us and where we're going. And I think, you know, it... It'll be interesting for the customers because if there's gonna be an emphasis on cost reduction, like, then there's gonna be a lot of focus from the customer on the service levels. And so I see it as an opportunity. [00:57:52] S0: Speaking of private and public markets, you are somewhat approaching your one year anniversary from going And it's been an absolute roller coaster ride when it comes to the stock price. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Maybe how have you managed this internally? Your stock, you know, coming out, I forget the example, maybe around $20.25, and then going down to 8, and now coming way back up. So how does this feel internally?
00:58:27 · Michael Sindicich
[00:58:27] S1: First of all, I would say IPOs are so weird. You know, we were the first ones to IPO during a government shutdown. So, you know, we had planned the IPO, all the billboards, the marketing, the parties, the employee travel, everything for one day. Two weeks before, the government shut down and we needed to move it. And it was this moment that you're kind of, you know, like preparing for for a while. And then the government was shut down. It was ambiguous. And we thought, well, we already cleared comments. Like, could we still go public during a during a shutdown? And we we we, you know, kind of reached an agreement and and made an understanding and ended up now having a date. So then it was a scramble to go redo all of these things that that we needed to do to make the IPO successful. The roadshow is daunting. It's like meetings all over the place. You're just meeting after meeting after meeting and you're repitching the same thing over and over and over again. And really quickly, it ended up going out at like twenty or something. Like really went down. Over the next couple weeks and months, it went down and down and down to in the $8 range. And we're sitting here thinking like, man, we built a good business. We think that everything's working. We're growing fast. We're really excited about our numbers. And then the price reflected in the stock is like so low. What's going on? And then your employees are asking a lot of questions. Like, you know, where's this thing going? Is the business messed up? And, you know, you have to do a lot of things. Like, we had Ben Horowitz come talk at the all hands with his experience. And he was like, guys, like, you know, keep doing your thing. Board member. Yeah. He's a board member. Exactly. You know, we we we basically were trying to be as transparent as we could, but also now you're a public company. So you can't communicate as much about, like, here's how the sales was and here's how this thing was and how that thing was. And so it's this really interesting and tough balance to figure out. But I think, you know, it's not that we saw a massive increase in attrition or anything like that. So people really, really focused on, you know, okay, what we're doing and okay, this is standard. And by the way, look at every other tech company that's not AI formed within the last three years.
01:00:45 · Michael Sindicich, Miguel Armaza
They're also going down and it's the broader market and all this kind of stuff. Luckily now, you know, we're up, you know, I don't know what it is today, within just a couple months, which I actually think turned around faster than what we would have expected because I think once you're down as a newly public company, takes quite a while to get back up. But for us, it was a matter of months, luckily, which is helpful. And now it's like, first of all, it's like how do we make sure that we still have this massive chip on our shoulder and keep growing and going as fast as we can and being super resilient? But two, it's also really cool because the employees that were here or who joined us when we were low, think about the amount that they were able to gain within just a couple months because they did take a bet on us when we were low. And the employees who stayed that maybe were issued new shares because it's like it was at the beginning of the year and we did our merit increases, like that would have appreciated so quickly within just a couple of months. And so now it's validating but it's also like, okay, but that's not anywhere near where we think we should be as a company and we need to keep pushing and growing from here. [01:01:58] S0: So before we run out of time, I just have a few rapid fire questions for you. Best advice you've gotten from the founders of the company, Ariel, Ilan?
01:02:11 · Michael Sindicich, Miguel Armaza
[01:02:11] S1: That's interesting. There's been a lot of advice over the years. I think one thing that Ariel told me, we were on a walk in downtown Palo Alto one day. I was super stressed. This would have been like in 2017. And he told me, he was like, Dude, relax, man. We're building travel. Like, we're selling travel management. Like, relax. It's not so, like, serious. You don't have to be so stressed out about it. Which, like, is the opposite of his personality. He's very, hard driving, aggressive, all this stuff. But to hear him say that, I think about that all the time when I get really stressed. And I think it was cool. It was like, hey, look, we're building a startup. We're building a company. We're not curing cancer. But what we are doing is we're making the lives better of people who need to book and manage travel. And it's one of the more annoying solutions in your everyday life for work with legacy platforms. And if we can make it delightful, that's a great thing for the world. And that was very helpful. I think Ilan, he generally puts our value of seriously fun. He definitely puts the fun in there. He's having a great time. He's so curious about new technologies and experiences, and he gets really excited when a user has a positive NPS comment and things like that. And I think I've learned a lot from him there around, Hey, we should be having fun building this thing. You know, it's not so serious to Ariel's advice as well. [01:03:47] S0: Favorite book or podcast that you go back to often?
01:03:47 · Miguel Armaza, Michael Sindicich
[01:03:47] S0: Favorite book or podcast that you go back to often? [01:03:57] S1: Favorite book or podcast? Let's see. I think what... I saw your books here. I think one is definitely missing. It's The Hard Thing About Hard Things. Unless you... I didn't see it here. But you're looking... I do have it here. Okay. I have a signed copy. [01:04:15] S0: Keep it... It might be somewhere else. [01:04:17] S1: But I think that's great book. And I don't know if you know, but in that book, there's a guy he talks about named Shaka, and we actually hired Shaka. And he was at our company for a while, for a couple years, and still a good mentor and friend of mine. And I just love that book. I think it's that. And Ben's other other book about culture, I think I think they're spot on. So those are kind of books that I like to go back to or [01:04:44] S0: or think about a lot. You've flown a absurd number of miles. Yeah. What's something about travel that no one speaks yet?
01:04:44 · Miguel Armaza, Michael Sindicich
[01:04:44] S0: or think about a lot. You've flown a absurd number of miles. Yeah. What's something about travel that no one speaks yet? [01:04:57] S1: I hope it's coming, but it's... To me, it's the Wi Fi. Like, you know, the the Wi Fi is... It's just horrible. I think it is coming with Starlink. Out of... We didn't talk about this, but I I am a pilot as well, so I have my VFR license. Yeah. I'm working on my IFR now. I'm actually flying myself back home from Tennessee. I'm going to Tennessee now and then flying myself back home after this trip. And and even I have Starlink on the planes that that I'm flying, little single prop mini planes. So I hope, you know, it will come to the rest of the the industry. But to me, it's it's Wi Fi is specifically the thing that's broken right now on flight experiences. [01:05:37] S0: Michael, thank you for taking the time. A lot to learn from you from just an amazing decade. Until there's a lot more to learn, You're a pilot, chess master, and a bunch of other things. Thanks for stopping by. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thanks for tuning in. And I hope you enjoyed this great episode with Michael from Navan. If you want more interviews, please subscribe, follow, and leave a review on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your shows. It helps and means a lot. And if you have any suggestions or thoughts about the show, just drop me a line on LinkedIn. See you next time.