Planet Money
00:24:32 · S0, Amanda Aronczyk, Scott Stringer
[00:24:32] S0: This message comes from Babson College. The world needs entrepreneurial leaders, and you can become one at Babson College. Gain the skills to lead, motivate, and inspire through a specialized master's or MBA program with full time, part time, and online options. Turn ideas into action with a graduate program that caters to your professional needs and fits your lifestyle. Ranked number one in entrepreneurship by US News and World Report. Visit babson.edu/gradprograms. [00:25:02] S2: So in law enforcement, there is this tension between security and transparency. Because when the police are trying to catch bad guys, they don't want the bad guys to know all the things that they're up to. But that secrecy allows law enforcement to use tools we don't know about, and that can be risky too. This half of this story is about a secret deal that allowed police to build a massive surveillance system without much public oversight. This deal came to light when, in New York, a few key people started noticing that the police had some new tactics and tricks that they weren't telling the public about. One of those key people was the former New York City comptroller, Scott Stringer. Comptroller. [00:25:47] S9: Controller. Comptroller.
00:25:47 · Scott Stringer, Amanda Aronczyk
[00:25:47] S9: Controller. Comptroller. [00:25:49] S2: In New York, that means the person in charge of city finances. When Scott Stringer came into office in 2014, he was told that if the NYPD wanted to buy some new tech or software that they didn't wanna make public for security reasons, they could classify it as a special expense. A special expense that did not need to be scrutinized by the city council or by the public. [00:26:12] S9: So they would come in. They would brief us about what they wanted to do. And in the old agreement, was like, okay. Wink wink. Nod nod. Security, we understand. [00:26:22] S2: This wink wink, nod nod system had been established years earlier, all the way back in 2007, when the comptroller and former mayor Bloomberg, plus a couple of city agencies, agreed to a memo of understanding with NYPD about the special expenses. [00:26:39] S9: Well, you know, remember, it was not that far away from nine eleven. Right. And so part of what I think people felt was that enhanced security and having every tool at your disposal was important. [00:26:53] S2: But Scott Stringer was like, is this okay? Normally, when a city agency wants to make some big purchase, even a new set of history books for sixth graders, there's a whole process for it, and it's designed to ensure public accountability. They take requests for bids, select a vendor, submit that vendor to be vetted. And within that process, there might be a big public debate about it.
00:26:53 · Amanda Aronczyk, Scott Stringer
[00:26:53] S2: But Scott Stringer was like, is this okay? Normally, when a city agency wants to make some big purchase, even a new set of history books for sixth graders, there's a whole process for it, and it's designed to ensure public accountability. They take requests for bids, select a vendor, submit that vendor to be vetted. And within that process, there might be a big public debate about it. [00:27:16] S9: It's a check, and we are a city of checks and balances. That's why we have a city council. That's why you have a controller. That's That's why you have an independent budget office. You know, all of this is to check a very powerful police department and a powerful mayor no matter who the mayor is. [00:27:30] S2: So a few years into the wink wink nod nod agreement with the NYPD, Scott Stringer was like, maybe skipping public debate about all of this new tech that the NYPD is buying is a mistake. [00:27:42] S9: When you're going to look at a technology, well, it it can't be, you know, five guys in a room. It has to be, will this pass the smell test? Are are we dealing with good actors? Are the contractors honest? Is their pay to play? A tool is important if it's effective. But how do we measure if it's effective if there's no oversight?
00:27:42 · Scott Stringer, Amanda Aronczyk
[00:27:42] S9: When you're going to look at a technology, well, it it can't be, you know, five guys in a room. It has to be, will this pass the smell test? Are are we dealing with good actors? Are the contractors honest? Is their pay to play? A tool is important if it's effective. But how do we measure if it's effective if there's no oversight? [00:28:06] S2: Now it wasn't just the comptroller who was worrying about what the police department was buying or what they were up to. Civil liberties advocates were like, is this even legal? All over The United States, there are long standing rules about what information police departments can collect about people before they become suspects in a crime. So for example, police are not supposed to spy on people because of their political or religious beliefs or demand data on people just to see who was near a crime scene or search someone's home without a warrant. Did any of the tools woven into the domain awareness system in those early years cross any existing lines or break any rules? At the time and without more information, it was hard to know. Over at the Legal Aid Society, a lawyer named Jerome Greco was seeing evidence of all kinds of new NYPD surveillance tools in court. At the time, he was defending clients, kinda like the people I was seeing in the videos while I was on grand jury duty. He remembers one particular case from 2016.
00:28:06 · Amanda Aronczyk, Jerome Greco
[00:28:06] S2: Now it wasn't just the comptroller who was worrying about what the police department was buying or what they were up to. Civil liberties advocates were like, is this even legal? All over The United States, there are long standing rules about what information police departments can collect about people before they become suspects in a crime. So for example, police are not supposed to spy on people because of their political or religious beliefs or demand data on people just to see who was near a crime scene or search someone's home without a warrant. Did any of the tools woven into the domain awareness system in those early years cross any existing lines or break any rules? At the time and without more information, it was hard to know. Over at the Legal Aid Society, a lawyer named Jerome Greco was seeing evidence of all kinds of new NYPD surveillance tools in court. At the time, he was defending clients, kinda like the people I was seeing in the videos while I was on grand jury duty. He remembers one particular case from 2016. [00:29:12] S10: We had a client who had a one night stand, and the MIP was looking for him and found him at, that woman's apartment. And we're like, has no connection to this woman before this night. Tell us how you found him. And, you know, crickets.
00:29:12 · Jerome Greco, Amanda Aronczyk, Scott Stringer
[00:29:12] S10: We had a client who had a one night stand, and the MIP was looking for him and found him at, that woman's apartment. And we're like, has no connection to this woman before this night. Tell us how you found him. And, you know, crickets. [00:29:27] S2: Had they tracked his cell phone? If so, how? Jerome wanted to know were these tools legal and effective, but he also wanted to know could he buy his own? Not for, like, eavesdropping or wiretapping, but tools to extract data from cell phones or laptops or enhance video. You guys have bought these things for yourself? [00:29:49] S10: Yes. Well, I wouldn't say for ourselves, for for our clients. [00:29:52] S2: I see. Like, if the NYPD has data from a cell phone, Jerome can also check the data for himself, make sure the evidence is accurate. He even goes to some of the same conferences that police go to to do some shopping. [00:30:06] S10: We go to see the vendors, and they're talking about... And this will help you catch the bad guy. And then they'll give us [00:30:11] S9: a whole little spiel, and [00:30:12] S10: then they'll say, where are you guys from? And, like, legal aid side, republic defenders, and just watching their face, like, drop the... Like, oh [00:30:18] S2: A lot of the reps from the tech companies are also former police officers themselves, which Jerome worries gives the products a kind of stamp of approval without due diligence.