Uncapped with Jack Altman
· Max Junestrand, Jack Altman
The question for these organizations who are maybe more traditional and trying to keep up with the pace of AI is, how do you do that while at the same time doing your normal job? A lot of the organizations that we work with really struggle with keeping up with the technology uplift, even with our developments. We’re struggling by getting all the latest models and turning that into product, and they have to adopt it, and then their customers have to adopt it. [00:00:00] S0: Here’s a question for both of you. As I’m listening to you talk, I can sort of see the hill climb that you’re on. You’ve attacked one part of it and the next one’s coming and the next one’s coming. One of the things I’m thinking about is, for a new startup in legal, what would the right strategy be for them? How do you possibly get into the mix fast enough for all of these things and then— [00:00:00] S1: Exit to Legora. [00:00:00] S0: Sell to Legora, that’s a good one. How urgent is it to grow really big, really fast for Legora, given all of the dynamics around this? Chetan, I’m curious how you think about this. Is it the same urgency as always, or do any of these dynamics mean that getting to real scale is more urgent here than other places?
· Chetan Puttagunta
[00:00:00] S2: We can go back to launch day, October 2024. When they launched, roughly the ARR of the business rounded to a million dollars. If you go back into that moment, there was this exercise of, should we make a budget? What we all decided around the table was there was no reason to make a budget because we don’t know anything about the market. We don’t know if people even like our product. We had instincts, but we just needed to go literally as fast as we could to get the product in as many hands as we could. Because ultimately the whole theory of the company didn’t work until we got product feedback. That was literally the aim. Get this out as quickly as possible into as many hands as possible. One of the things that Max did… It’s cliche to say it’s first-principles thinking, but it is, because the team was unbiased by how to build a software company. One of the things you learned in SaaS was the way you do pilots is you would go in, do a time-trial pilot where you would give them access to the application. The minute the trial was done, you would turn it off and then they would have to make a purchasing decision. A big thing that happened with Legora is they would go put Legora into your organization and whatever you put into Legora, they would leave behind even if you didn’t want it. So there was this idea that, “Hey, you adopted AI, you did stuff with AI, you built some practices. Whatever skills you built or whatever IP you built, it’s kind of yours. We can leave that behind. It’s not a big deal. It’s your skills, it’s the things that you’ve learned.” Then Max went around and just gave people 30-day pilots, 60-day pilots, whatever they wanted. 90-day pilots.
· Max Junestrand, Jack Altman
[00:00:00] S1: They would run these competitive pilots. They would say, “Okay, there’s a couple of companies on the market. We’re going to want to A/B test all of them because it’s really hard to pick based on the feature set on your website. In those pilots, I think we did an extraordinarily good job of delivering value. When the 30 days were up, if we shut it down, it would be a riot. People would roar and they’d be like, “We’ve never seen software adoption like this in a legal organization. We need this and we need it now.” In those pilots, we would demonstrate much better than any other company the value that the product and the service around the product could bring. We hired all these lawyers, who are now called legal engineers. It’s a great term, forward-deployed legal engineers. [00:00:00] S0: I was just going to say, what about FDLE? [00:00:00] S1: That’s right, FDLE. They’re amazing. They’re the most tech-savvy lawyers in different organizations who don’t want to make partner, because that’s one type of life. They want to work in a tech company and now they get to work with their practice that they’re amazing at, and technology. Then they get to work with the best legal organizations in the world and drive that change. [00:00:00] S0: I would think once you’re embedded in these organizations, it’s got to be sticky. [00:00:00] S1: I think Legora is very sticky. We’ve ripped out our competition at many organizations at this point. [00:00:00] S0: What creates stickiness?
· Jack Altman, Max Junestrand
[00:00:00] S0: What creates stickiness? [00:00:00] S1: The stickiness is the use cases and the cadence. If you’ve invested time in building up a workflow that works for you, why would you want to switch? It’s usage stickiness. [00:00:00] S0: It’s not data. [00:00:00] S1: No, not yet. Not any real technical implementation, which is great, because our competition has been deployed in a lot of places with no real usage or very simple use cases. That means that we can go there, show them, and display clearly in a pilot that we deliver much better, and then we can easily swap it. So we actually have a dedicated migration team moving deployments over to Legora.
· Max Junestrand, Chetan Puttagunta, Jack Altman
[00:00:00] S1: No, not yet. Not any real technical implementation, which is great, because our competition has been deployed in a lot of places with no real usage or very simple use cases. That means that we can go there, show them, and display clearly in a pilot that we deliver much better, and then we can easily swap it. So we actually have a dedicated migration team moving deployments over to Legora. [00:00:00] S2: This is where we often talked about not only product engineering velocity—which came naturally to the founders here because they were engineers—but also this idea of velocity of customer interaction. If a customer wanted to buy a certain way, wanted to do a pilot, whatever, just don’t add friction. That was actually the key unlock. There was this idea of, let’s just go get this in everybody’s hands and not have any bias. One of my favorite stories about Max is that he came to San Francisco to sell a bunch of clients and then he texted me and was like, “Are you free for dinner?” So we met for dinner and then he asked for a ride to the airport. I casually asked, “Where are you going?” expecting him to say Seattle or LA or something. He was like, “I’m going to New Delhi.” I was like, “Why are you going to New Delhi?” He was like, “Well, one of the largest firms in India wants to buy. So I figured I’d go give it to them.” [00:00:00] S0: That’s crazy. [00:00:00] S2: You know this. In SaaS it was like, “No, do the West regional, then do the East regional, then do Western Europe, and then eventually hire an APAC head.” It was this whole thing.
· Chetan Puttagunta, Jack Altman, Max Junestrand
[00:00:00] S2: You know this. In SaaS it was like, “No, do the West regional, then do the East regional, then do Western Europe, and then eventually hire an APAC head.” It was this whole thing. [00:00:00] S0: And by the way, there’s going to be a year of engineering work to be even ready to serve India. [00:00:00] S2: 100%. And because this company and this team had never built a pre-AI software company, they didn’t know they weren’t supposed to go sell in India early, one quarter into selling the product. So Max got on a flight, went to India, and a customer in India bought. It was one of those things where because they didn’t have the patterns, they were able to get big globally in parallel. [00:00:00] S0: I also wonder about this. We talked about this a little bit. Being a Europe-based company means that you are multinational from the beginning. [00:00:00] S1: You have to be. [00:00:00] S0: I think some of this is pre-AI, a lot of it is. But I also think there’s a thing where if you started in Europe, you’ve already learned how to sell to ten countries. You know that there’s differences in the way the cultures work and the way they purchase software and what the rules and regulations are. I’m curious if you thought about that when you invested, that actually, maybe coming to the US will be easier one day. And I’m curious about your experience on that.