A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders
00:32:37 · Mark Hughes, Pablo Srugo
[00:32:37] S0: Yeah. And I think, like, that's how we got these customers, and then, like, how we grew those customers is probably another thing that I have a strong opinion on. And, like, our net revenue retention last year was a 186%. So, like, what we did then was we would go meet these people in person. So, like, day one, first office there as we got into YC, sat with our group partner, Brad, and we're talking about customers. And we were saying we have this customer, Podium, and, like, they're really using the tool heavily across different teams. Don't know them that well. And he's like, yeah, like Podium are a YC company, and they're based in Utah. Like, go book a flight and just, like, try get a meeting with them. So we're like, okay. Cool. And they were like, we're messing them saying, oh, we'd love to meet in person, and, obviously, people are busy. They're kinda ignoring us. So then we just, like, doorstep them, basically. We're, oh, we're actually meeting these other customers, potential customers in Utah. We'd love to come in. And then they were the most hospitable people ever. Ireland gets a good name for good hospitality. I've never seen anything like it in Utah. So they kinda brought us into their office. Like, we walked in. We were introduced, like, the Solid Rogue guys, and, like, one of their teams got up and started, like, clapping again. Patrick was getting emotional in that in that regard. Don't know if it was, like, being endearing or just joking, but either way, we appreciated [00:33:42] S1: it.
00:33:42 · Pablo Srugo, Mark Hughes
[00:33:42] S1: it. [00:33:43] S0: And we kind of parked ourselves in one in of their meeting rooms for three days and, like, met with every single person who's using the tool, got feedback, and then we just, like again, when we saw how impactful that was on usage and, like, building relationships with people, that it wasn't just, like, a Slack connect channel and didn't know anyone, we'd like scale that. [00:34:02] S1: What does that do? Tell me a bit more about like because obviously the time investment in going to visit a customer is massive between the flight and the hotel and this and that or whatever. The reason that you get more is is what exactly? People see you and they're just more willing to jump into a room and chat with for you for thirty minutes? Your onboarding is better? Like, what improves as a result of spending that time? [00:34:21] S0: Yeah. I think, like, onboarding activation, it's like there could be small bottlenecks in the product that you don't realize. Because we're not a self serve product. We're a sales led motion, and there's things in our product that maybe we just become blind to that become bottlenecked to adding new users or someone getting fully activated in the tool. So it was really being able to see that firsthand and click buttons side by side. So I think activation's a big one. And then, yeah, just, like, the actual relationship, like
00:34:21 · Mark Hughes, Pablo Srugo
[00:34:21] S0: Yeah. I think, like, onboarding activation, it's like there could be small bottlenecks in the product that you don't realize. Because we're not a self serve product. We're a sales led motion, and there's things in our product that maybe we just become blind to that become bottlenecked to adding new users or someone getting fully activated in the tool. So it was really being able to see that firsthand and click buttons side by side. So I think activation's a big one. And then, yeah, just, like, the actual relationship, like [00:34:46] S1: It's literally hand to hand combat. Like, at scale, you're gonna have to figure something out. But it's like, okay. This pissing off, cool. Like, let's fix it. Let's find a way, whether it's software or just me telling you or whatever it takes, let's just get to the point where you're almost forcing. We always talk about that moment, that value moment where it's seven friends on Facebook, whatever it is. How do you get people to that fast? You know what? Just show up at their office and hand hold them all the way till they get there, and then you're like, cool. Now who's next? You know what I mean? Like, now you're good to go. [00:35:13] S0: Yeah. Like, a 100%. Obviously, you need to have ACVs to justify, like, our ACVs are are sitting at just below, like, a 100 k now. [00:35:20] S1: But even back then, like, that was that a 100 k customer, or that more, 20 k? [00:35:23] S0: No. Like, twenty, twenty five k. [00:35:25] S1: Yeah. At the beginning, it's like whatever. As long as they can grow into that.
00:35:25 · Pablo Srugo, Mark Hughes
[00:35:25] S1: Yeah. At the beginning, it's like whatever. As long as they can grow into that. [00:35:28] S0: 100%. 100%. And and I think the one good thing that really came from the first batch of on-site visits, because, like, I have a a note in my phone of all the flights I took last year for customers, and I took 56 flights and based on, like half my time was in Dublin and then I moved to San Francisco full time in in September, so taking transatlantic flights as well to Nashville and Connecticut and all these interesting places. What percent of [00:35:52] S1: your time, total time would you say is then invested in just being with customers? [00:35:57] S0: Then, I actually don't have the the honest figures. It was like a big proportion, like [00:36:01] S1: Must have been like 80%. I mean, 56 flights. Like, it's just even between that.
00:36:01 · Pablo Srugo, Mark Hughes
[00:36:01] S1: Must have been like 80%. I mean, 56 flights. Like, it's just even between that. [00:36:05] S0: Yeah. And like, you look at because like, we would've we would've been five people when we finished YC and closed our our seed round from first round capital. And then even when we closed our series a in January of this year, like, signed the term sheet, officially closed in March, we were still only 12 people. So we're now at, like, 28 people. So, like, yeah, I was, like, I was doing founder led sales for a long we have a stood up sales team now and, a sales leader, but, yeah, it was, like, yeah, the majority of my time, and I still do everything I can to fly to meet customers. We have two people on-site in Madrid today with Fever, one of our customers who do, like, alternative ticketing, kind like a Ticketmaster competitor, and Ryanair, who have one of their large contact centers out in Madrid. So we have an engineer and a sales rep in Madrid right now. Although the ACVs didn't necessarily justify it at the start, what it enabled us to do is everyone was signed up on a month to month Strideblink, and we were able
00:36:05 · Mark Hughes, Pablo Srugo
[00:36:05] S0: Yeah. And like, you look at because like, we would've we would've been five people when we finished YC and closed our our seed round from first round capital. And then even when we closed our series a in January of this year, like, signed the term sheet, officially closed in March, we were still only 12 people. So we're now at, like, 28 people. So, like, yeah, I was, like, I was doing founder led sales for a long we have a stood up sales team now and, a sales leader, but, yeah, it was, like, yeah, the majority of my time, and I still do everything I can to fly to meet customers. We have two people on-site in Madrid today with Fever, one of our customers who do, like, alternative ticketing, kind like a Ticketmaster competitor, and Ryanair, who have one of their large contact centers out in Madrid. So we have an engineer and a sales rep in Madrid right now. Although the ACVs didn't necessarily justify it at the start, what it enabled us to do is everyone was signed up on a month to month Strideblink, and we were able [00:36:55] S1: to convert all those people to annual contracts or multiyear contracts, which is obviously very important. My next question was around the NRR. You mentioned NRR over a 180%. You talked about going into the office as a great way of onboarding and activation, which is obviously like, it's like the foundation. Like, that's what you need for people to use it, and then therefore to at least renew. But how do you go from a 20 k CV to a 100 k CV? Is this in person motion a key part of that?