Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
00:15:46 · Andrew Huberman
So, to return to this in sequence, you need to learn to turn your thoughts off. You need to forget about your body position, and slow your heart rate down. And the order in which you do that doesn't really matter. Ideally want to combine all three, but I think that's going to be a significant achievement for humanity, because if you look at recovery from illness, healing, learning, stress control, burnout, right, if you're going through grief or psychological stress or trauma healing, if you're trying to start a company and you've got kids, or even if you're just trying to work the maximum number of hours, and you've got four hours to sleep and you're somebody who needs six, you want to be able to hit the pillow and shut it off. And we don't have good ways to do that, except the tools I described. So I think we are starting to go about things in a more healthy way. But what I'm talking about is people doing a thorough self assessment of sleep need, ability to turn off thoughts, and then training those things. In fact, lot of hard driving people will come to me and say, like, What workout should I do? I'm like, Look, how much time do you have? In graduate school, I worked out twice a week. I don't talk about this, but I lifted weights and I ran really far because I just wanted to maintain while I worked my ass off publishing as many great papers as I could. And then later I'm doing, you know, three workouts a week with the weights. I do cardio three times a week, long, medium, and short, Take a day off, maybe do some sauna and cold. My life's a little bit different now, or a lot different. But I do think those first years, you're trying to just not die while you create this thing. Then you start moving into some quote unquote balance and optimization. And then you get the people who have really achieved some level of mastery or virtuosity in their craft. And you really get an assessment of how accurately their schedule matched who they really were at a physiological level by looking at them and going like, they look like shit. They have a chronic illness. They look ten years older than they were supposed to. Or there are certain people who are like phenoms, like in Elon, or you look at some people and you just go, holy crap, they just got an extra gear. And I'm speculating here, but I'm guessing that Jack Dorsey was always a pretty calm, thoughtful guy.
00:17:49 · Andrew Huberman
That's what people tell me of him, and that's how I experience him too. But I'm guessing he's also put some work into it. He's figured out that staying alert and calm all day, and sleeping well at night is the key to having a really long successful arc.
00:18:03 · Patrick O'Shaughnessy
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00:19:50 · Andrew Huberman
[00:19:50] S1: do you think? I mean, I feel like the public discourse around health and longevity is a fucking disaster. It is a bunch of clowns and people are doubling and tripling down on the theatrics. I'm not saying I get everything right or that I have all the answers. I'm definitely not saying that. I got into this at the right time, but the downside is that it was so devoid of anyone else. There were people talking about health only in their area that they worked on in their lab, but not broadly, that, you know, the bar for entry in public discourse around health is basically zero. You know, it's like, you show your abs and you admit you're on steroids, you have a following. Some dude shows his abs or some woman like shows her glutes and claims to be all natural and we believe them, and suddenly they have a following. So, I mean, if that's the bar for entry, I come from a field where having a PhD isn't even nearly sufficient. It's necessary, but not even nearly sufficient to say that you've contributed something to the understanding of the brain. Like, we could take somebody like Tim Ferriss was talking about a lot of this stuff early on, the biohacking, self optimization. And what I love about Tim is he's remained Tim. There was this period where he experimented. He had some things that he felt probably weren't a good idea, you know, he talks about those, like things that he wishes he hadn't done, and things that he's happy he did. And then he's also in investing in all these other things. I think Tim's fantastic, because he's being Tim. So I'm not referring to that. And then you started getting these more and more extreme versions where people were coming in with basically no science or health training, and saying, Hey, like, here's how you optimize the mind and body, and I know this because I'm doing all these things and I used to be fat and I'm not fat anymore. And I think that's fine in principle, but then it just keeps getting crazier and crazier. And so what you've seen now is there's a big gap between, if I'm just honest, between the A tier public health educators and what used to be the B tier public educators, it's just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Because one has to be true to self, but you also have to take the endeavor seriously. It's very easy to get attention. It's very hard to keep respect.
00:21:49 · Andrew Huberman
So, I do think that the public health discourse is harmed when it becomes about the theatrics. And I'm not trying to not name names here, mean, think everyone can look out on the landscape of everyone, from Brian to me to Gary Breca to Asprey to anyone else, there are a lot in the space, and just go, like, whose persona resonates, not just what captures the entertainment value? So what I would expect will happen next, now that we've gone from high amounts of interest in this, to this optimization optimization, now it's turned into, are we over optimizing? I I think we're going see a downturn in the number of things that people are willing to do each day. They're like, this is just too much. It's gotten kind of kooky. It's kind of crazy. And the characters, I need more serious peers. I need serious peers with training in either science or medicine, maybe pharmacology, and they're out there. But I think those people are going to rise to the surface. We haven't seen them yet. So I look forward to having colleagues like that. And then I think what's going happen is we're going to get many, many more people trained as PhDs, trained as MDs, are going to be doing serious science health discourse, not regressing to the TikTok dance model, the focus on me model, and really educating people in a way that's unique, that I'm certain I haven't even tapped into. Someone's gonna come along that's better than me. So I think this field is gonna go into a downturn now, the public education around health and optimization, longevity, etcetera, is going to go into a bit of a downturn. And then I think we're gonna get an influx of a lot of great people, and then it will be where I would like to see it.
00:23:16 · Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:23:16] S0: How about on the research side? Biggest problem facing the field.