Banking Without Borders
00:09:29 · Jan Watermann, Jonny Pease
[00:09:29] S1: So maybe they're not intending to make a profit with the loan. Is that what you're saying? But instead they're just, you know, hoping that people get money in order to be able to spend it in their online shop. [00:09:39] S0: You know what doesn't make sense to me though? The rate that you will receive would typically improve the more you borrow. If you borrow £10,000 from Monzo, you could have to pay back roughly in interest, because this might change depending on who you are, around £3,541 pounds. That's £10,000, Jan. What happens if you borrow £10,100 across the same period? Well, it drastically changes. It drops to 10%, and the interest that you have to pay off goes down to like 1,500 quid. So you're talking about this incredible reduction in interest just for borrowing an extra 100 pounds. Now that is a very visceral example of what's going on here, but I do find it really quite terrifying. If I'm desperate to l to borrow, Jan and I I need the money and I see that, you know, I could potentially save on interest by borrowing more, I'm just gonna push to get myself further in debt. But then what if you can't pay it off? You end up, you could technically get yourself in a worse place because of that incentive.
00:09:39 · Jonny Pease, Jan Watermann
[00:09:39] S0: You know what doesn't make sense to me though? The rate that you will receive would typically improve the more you borrow. If you borrow £10,000 from Monzo, you could have to pay back roughly in interest, because this might change depending on who you are, around £3,541 pounds. That's £10,000, Jan. What happens if you borrow £10,100 across the same period? Well, it drastically changes. It drops to 10%, and the interest that you have to pay off goes down to like 1,500 quid. So you're talking about this incredible reduction in interest just for borrowing an extra 100 pounds. Now that is a very visceral example of what's going on here, but I do find it really quite terrifying. If I'm desperate to l to borrow, Jan and I I need the money and I see that, you know, I could potentially save on interest by borrowing more, I'm just gonna push to get myself further in debt. But then what if you can't pay it off? You end up, you could technically get yourself in a worse place because of that incentive. [00:10:41] S1: Yeah, Jonny, that system is messed up. This system is totally messed up, at least from a consumer perspective. I understand why banks do that. I assume there's administrative effort involved with giving a loan to someone. Therefore, it's in their interest to give you as much money as possible because they'll be receiving more interest with it. But I think it's quite drastic, right? Literally a hundred pounds can make a difference of 13%, right? There's yeah, there's no way to justify that, at least in at least in my same with nationwide.
00:10:41 · Jan Watermann, Jonny Pease
[00:10:41] S1: Yeah, Jonny, that system is messed up. This system is totally messed up, at least from a consumer perspective. I understand why banks do that. I assume there's administrative effort involved with giving a loan to someone. Therefore, it's in their interest to give you as much money as possible because they'll be receiving more interest with it. But I think it's quite drastic, right? Literally a hundred pounds can make a difference of 13%, right? There's yeah, there's no way to justify that, at least in at least in my same with nationwide. [00:11:14] S0: Okay. It's like with nationwide, if you borrow just an extra one pound, okay, if you go from 7,499 pounds over five years, we should say we've used their loan calculators to work this one out. So this is directly, this is primary sourced. If you borrow £7,499 with nationwide across five years, you get a an APR of 6.9%. Okay, if you borrow £7,500 across the same term length, one pound more, you get £1.9%. [00:11:41] S1: You have to read the fine print here. How devastating it it must feel to take out a loan, right? And then figure out that if you would have taken taken out one pound more, you would have literally had to pay one percent less in interest. It's uh I mean that's that's not good at all.
00:11:41 · Jan Watermann, Jonny Pease
[00:11:41] S1: You have to read the fine print here. How devastating it it must feel to take out a loan, right? And then figure out that if you would have taken taken out one pound more, you would have literally had to pay one percent less in interest. It's uh I mean that's that's not good at all. [00:11:57] S0: And we know just how emotionally charged money can be for so many people, and being in debt, it's it's even worse. You know, it's it's it's such a horrifying place to be. And if you imagine you are pushed to your extent, your limit, and what you can owe and pay back, and you scrimp and save on your life, and to the point where maybe you're not eating as much to save money, and then you realise, oh, I could have actually ended up paying back less just by borrowing another pound. Like the whole system is deeply flawed. It's like the idea of payment holidays, Jan. [00:12:28] S1: Payment holidays.
00:12:28 · Jan Watermann, Jonny Pease
[00:12:28] S1: Payment holidays. [00:12:29] S0: Like payment holidays, yeah. I don't know if you're familiar with this. Yeah. It's alongs nice. Yeah, it does, isn't it? It makes me think of beaches, cocktails, my daughter swimming in a pool. Like it's a really nice feeling. With loans, I don't think payment holidays are very nice at all. It's essentially a pause on you having to pay back the loan, but it's not a pause on the interest. So this is something you have to look out for. Yeah, you won't have to pay it back one month, or maybe two, in the case of Tesco Bank, for example. They give you a payment holiday when you take out a personal loan. They they're throwing holidays at you. Um, but the interest already starts to build up. So Tesco Bank are making it feel like a benefit yan, but it's really just two months more of borrowing in their case. Um, and it it comes at no extra risk to them, and ultimately it can mean that they end up getting more from you. You know, we're still made to feel as if we're getting something, you know, we're being allowed to be a good thing. [00:13:20] S1: That's great marketing, isn't it? Yeah. Being given a break. A holiday. Holiday is a nice thing. [00:13:24] S0: That's something that's something about these loans, isn't it? Like the marketing side of it, Jan, right? There shouldn't be marketing mechanics behind this. It should just be this is the rate. This is like don't like don't take this out. It should be like, don't take this out.
00:13:24 · Jonny Pease, Jan Watermann
[00:13:24] S0: That's something that's something about these loans, isn't it? Like the marketing side of it, Jan, right? There shouldn't be marketing mechanics behind this. It should just be this is the rate. This is like don't like don't take this out. It should be like, don't take this out. [00:13:39] S1: Not not quite sure if this is the bank's fault, though, Jonny, because those are institutions that are yeah, interested in making as much profit as possible. Um, they're not charities. It's just in their nature to do whatever it takes to earn as much money as they possibly can. It's up to the regulator, right? The regulator can restrict what they are allowed to say and what they're not allowed to say. And if they say um this is how the representative APR works, there you go. Then the bank does exactly that. If I had a bank, I'd probably do the same. And if it works in my favor, even better.