Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
00:38:10 · Rob Snyder, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:38:10] S0: Yeah. [00:38:11] S1: Okay. And then what's your take on AI emailing a bunch of people versus individually reaching out and thinking about some unique message per person? [00:38:21] S0: I have not seen AI personalization work at this stage. Usually, what it does is it tells them something they already know about themselves, and they're like, that looks like Claude wrote it. And so I don't usually recommend that. I also don't... I haven't seen personalization be super important here. These messages that I... I said the entire message that I would send. You don't need to actually have a ton of personalization in it or like, hey. I'm going to xConference. We're gonna be pitching. Would you be open to chat? Like, something like that can be good enough without any personalization at all. [00:38:54] S1: All the examples you shared are very simple and don't have anything to do with them and just say something interesting, basically. And what you what you don't recommend is is base... Yeah. The idea you're not trying to sell them immediately. You just wanna have a call. [00:39:10] S0: Yeah. And on the call, we'll see if you have poll. If you do, you're gonna turn it into a sales call. If you don't, nothing I do is gonna change that. [00:39:18] S1: Okay. How many emails slash LinkedIn posts should you start with, say, you're just getting started to try to find some calls?
00:39:18 · Lenny Rachitsky, Rob Snyder
[00:39:18] S1: Okay. How many emails slash LinkedIn posts should you start with, say, you're just getting started to try to find some calls? [00:39:26] S0: Yeah. So I tend to start on LinkedIn because the kind of person who you and I, like, talk to, they have interesting LinkedIns. And so if you're reaching out to someone, they're gonna say, oh, okay. That... So that's gonna do a lot of lifting. You can just get started. And so you can add a 100, 150 people on LinkedIn per week. Go for that. Add 20 a day, and then message them when they accept the connection request. And if you're sending... Like, if you're connecting with... I don't know. Let's say you connect with a 100 people per week or you you send a 150. My typical targets for that are, like, 30 to 40% of them should accept your connection request. And then of them, 30 to 50 should... Percent should reply, and a subset of them should say yes. The majority of them should say, yeah. [00:40:11] S1: Sure. Why not? Okay. That's an awesome benchmark. So if you're not at that level, basically, your interesting email is not is not working. You should find some more interesting. [00:40:20] S0: Is is... It's... Could be your profile if people aren't accepting your request. Like, they might look at you and say, you don't look like somebody. I should accept this request. Or it looks like you're about to pitch me. Right? Or something like that. Or your message just isn't interesting if you're getting 30 to 40% accepts, and then people aren't replying.
00:40:20 · Rob Snyder, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:40:20] S0: Is is... It's... Could be your profile if people aren't accepting your request. Like, they might look at you and say, you don't look like somebody. I should accept this request. Or it looks like you're about to pitch me. Right? Or something like that. Or your message just isn't interesting if you're getting 30 to 40% accepts, and then people aren't replying. [00:40:37] S1: This season's supporting sponsor is DX. Now that everybody at your company is finally using AI, the question that engineering leaders face is no longer are we using AI, but is it paying off? With DX, you can measure and benchmark the impact of AI adoption across your full product lifecycle. DX shows you where AI is helping developers and where it's creating new bottlenecks. You can also use it to evaluate AI vendors, monitor costs and licenses, and see exactly what's limiting your agents. That's why hundreds of enterprises, including Snowflake, Sony, and BNY use the DX platform to measure AI's impact on developer productivity. Visit getdx.com/leni to get a demo of d x. That's getdx.com/leni. So say you've landed a call and you're gonna do a sales call, say your first one, what is your advice for doing a great job on that... On the sales call?
00:41:37 · Rob Snyder, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:41:37] S0: Mostly two steps in a sales call. There's the pull discovery step, and then there's the kind of conceptual pitch of how we might help step. And so the theory behind a sales call is, again, it's like, if you have you're gonna rip the thing out of my hands. I don't come into this call wired up, ready to try to convince you to buy Super Ant. No, it's just if you have pull, you're going to convince me to let you buy. And so I approached this with the vibe of just leaned back, excited to chat, let's see if I might be able to help you. And so I have a very specific structure of a sales call that I recommend for getting into discovery and then transitioning out of discovery. Basically, you start the call, hey, thanks so much for taking the time. I'm curious. I'm sure [00:42:30] S1: you get a bunch of
00:42:30 · Lenny Rachitsky, Rob Snyder
[00:42:30] S1: you get a bunch of [00:42:31] S0: people reaching out to you. Like, why did you take the call with me today? That's a chance for them to say, you know, you mentioned AI agents, and I've been thinking about this, and I've just been waiting, I looked at your website, whatever whatever it winds up being. And they they fill out the entire pull framework for you right there. That's ideal. And then you can say, Oh, that's interesting. Can I ask a couple follow ups? But most of the time, they'll say, I don't know, you reached out to me. Excited to hear what you have to say. Say, Great. You use what they have just told you and say, Okay, great. That sounds like a great agenda for today's call. We can do that. Does that sound good to you? Get their thumbs up on the agenda, and then you earn the right to ask them some discovery questions about their poll by saying, great. Okay. Before we get to those items you know, on our agenda, do you mind if I ask you a few questions to better understand your context? And that way, you've earned the right to ask questions. It does not feel like an interrogation to them because if it does, they're not telling you anything. [00:43:32] S1: Okay. A few tactical questions. One is just how long should you try to make this call? How long should your invite be for? And then where does where does the demo fit in? Do you recommend demo on this call or doing a separate call for that?
00:43:32 · Lenny Rachitsky, Rob Snyder
[00:43:32] S1: Okay. A few tactical questions. One is just how long should you try to make this call? How long should your invite be for? And then where does where does the demo fit in? Do you recommend demo on this call or doing a separate call for that? [00:43:44] S0: Yeah. So this is almost always a thirty minute call on the calendar. Just I've found smaller calendar blocks they don't see on their calendar, and so they don't show. And so thirty minutes and then iffy on doing a demo. So if you're super early, you probably don't have a demo to show. And so... But later on, you might have a very short demo in in your first call. [00:44:09] S1: I I guess... Because I'm thinking about the Jen conversation I had, and her advice is wait to do the demo. But that's an enterprise sales sort of product, not like an early stage, just full hypothesis phase. [00:44:19] S0: Yeah. Totally. Totally. [00:44:20] S1: Okay. Got it. What's a sign that this meeting went well? Is it this kind of leaning in, pulling it from you feeling? [00:44:27] S0: Yeah. So so it's kind of you're able to surface pull, or you're able to say, okay. You don't have pull at all. Help me understand why this isn't relevant to you. What is? And so you come away with a either filled out pull framework of, Okay, I understand this person's pull and they are trying to pull, or you understand why they don't have pull. [00:44:51] S1: How many of these calls should you do before you're like, okay, there's no pull here. Time to move on.