Inspired with Alexa von Tobel
00:46:26 · Alexa von Tobel, Mikey Shulman
[00:46:26] S1: Mikey, few more questions before we go to our quick fire round. Are there any guardrails? Is there anything just culturally... And by the way, what comes out so clearly, Mikey, is just how sincerely passionate you, the Suno team is. It is so tangible that you absolutely love what you are doing. It is just so clear as I've gotten to know you better, like you are in the seat for a reason doing the thing because it is coming out of your cells. It is on the cellular level that you love what you're building. That is such a powerful cultural tenant of Suno. Are there any guardrails? Or are there like any rules or things that you guys really have to ensure that you are building Suno in the way you want to? [00:47:11] S0: In the product, there are obviously guardrails. We do a lot of copyright detection, so people can't be uploading copyrighted materials. There's some mild content moderation. This, I think, is a really interesting question because music has always been pretty filthy, and we don't want to be the, let's say, cultural gatekeepers there. So I think in some sense though, the domain that we are in is also really nice because we're not building something that's gonna turn the world into paper clips. We're not building something that can really be weaponized. And so, again, it it allows us to build with more speed because music is art, and in some ways is a lower stakes domain.
00:47:11 · Mikey Shulman, Alexa von Tobel
[00:47:11] S0: In the product, there are obviously guardrails. We do a lot of copyright detection, so people can't be uploading copyrighted materials. There's some mild content moderation. This, I think, is a really interesting question because music has always been pretty filthy, and we don't want to be the, let's say, cultural gatekeepers there. So I think in some sense though, the domain that we are in is also really nice because we're not building something that's gonna turn the world into paper clips. We're not building something that can really be weaponized. And so, again, it it allows us to build with more speed because music is art, and in some ways is a lower stakes domain. [00:47:55] S1: Mikey, I wanna transition a little bit before we go to the quick fire round of just you have been managing a lot. You and I even caught up a few weeks ago and you were like, Alexa, this has been a week. You were just like, you know, you're... What you're doing is so joyful and emotionally in some ways effortless because you love what you're doing, but you're also running a company that is growing profoundly, and that is not easy. Give us a quick sense of like your mentality. How are you? How have you? Have you developed a new habit? How are you managing the chaos of it all? And anything you can just pay forward on the leadership side?
00:48:35 · Mikey Shulman, Alexa von Tobel
[00:48:35] S0: I don't know if I have anything great to share here. Like, I'm mostly making this up as I go. This is still the biggest company that I've ever worked at. And, you know, and so every... Everything from here is new. I think it is really... Try to be very thrifty with my attention and really choose very carefully what do I pay attention to and what do I not pay attention to. And that can be really hard because you will have people from the outside pointing to things that are not important enough, and they can be important people pointing to things that are not important enough. And you have to just be like, I hear you, but that is not the most important thing right now. And so I'm just gonna put that to the side because, you know, everybody will say it's assembling the airplane on the way down. And I think, you know, I have heard that a 100 times, except it's very hard to actually conceptualize what that means until you're until you're in it a little bit. And so, yeah, I think I think really really being open minded also to what your schedule could and should look like. And and I think, you know, I I I thank you for the compliment before. I actually really love my job, and one of the things I love about it is how different every single day is. And I don't know if I can go back to having an honest job after doing this. So let let... Let's see what happens. [00:49:58] S1: I I I I can tell you, Mikey, I'm positive you cannot go backwards. Okay, Mikey. I am dying to ask you a few quick questions because it would be silly not to. [00:50:07] S0: Let's do it.
00:50:07 · Mikey Shulman, Alexa von Tobel
[00:50:07] S0: Let's do it. [00:50:08] S1: So first, what is a Suno song that you're, like, playing on repeat right now? [00:50:13] S0: There are a couple songs made by employees here with some new models, so that I can't share publicly that are that are really, really good. I make a lot of songs with my kids on Suno, and so there's, like, a couple in particular that I'm that I'm playing there. Most of the ones I play on repeat, I haven't made. And I think I I think that's not true for everyone, though. [00:50:38] S1: Next question is, what's a favorite genre of music that you like to make on Suno? [00:50:42] S0: I'm gonna get in trouble for saying this, but it's gospel. [00:50:46] S1: Oh, we don't. [00:50:46] S0: I really like gospel music. [00:50:48] S1: I love that. Mikey, what a wonderful what a wonderful [00:50:52] S0: I have a whole gospel Hanukkah album from last year. [00:50:56] S1: That is amazing. That makes me so happy, Mikey. Thank you for sharing that. Mikey, what is a mantra? Like, any... A motto, a mantra, something that kind of runs inside you.
00:50:56 · Alexa von Tobel, Mikey Shulman
[00:50:56] S1: That is amazing. That makes me so happy, Mikey. Thank you for sharing that. Mikey, what is a mantra? Like, any... A motto, a mantra, something that kind of runs inside you. [00:51:07] S0: Something I stole from somebody I used to work with in grad school is just to say go team a lot, and it is an acknowledgement. Both positives and negatives are are team things, and the first time this was said to me was after I literally dropped something on the floor and lost a month of work, and the person I was working with just, like, gave me a high five, he said, go team. It's like, well, like, okay. We just keep going. And... But also on good stuff. Like... And then when you, you know, do something amazing and, you know, you have a a great new model release and and, you know, your users love it, it's like, go team. And so I think it's it's an important recognition that this is a team sport. [00:51:47] S1: That's so well said. And it didn't know it. It is a team sport, and it's team sport on the way down too. So that's great. What is a book that you've read, Mikey? It's such a highly academic person. A book, and it doesn't have to be a business book. What's a book that sort of changed the way you think about life?
00:51:47 · Alexa von Tobel, Mikey Shulman
[00:51:47] S1: That's so well said. And it didn't know it. It is a team sport, and it's team sport on the way down too. So that's great. What is a book that you've read, Mikey? It's such a highly academic person. A book, and it doesn't have to be a business book. What's a book that sort of changed the way you think about life? [00:52:04] S0: That changes the way I think about life. I recently read this book called Airborne that I think Patrick Collison told me to read, and it's about the aerobiome. And it is very humbling because we actually haven't learned all that much in the last hundred years about the aerobiome. And so it is a it is a an object lesson in being very humble about what you do and do not know. [00:52:28] S1: That's amazing. Last two questions. One, what is a habit you have that you think helps you excel? [00:52:34] S0: When I am home, I do not miss bedtime for my kids, and I think that is a really grounding activity. It's also enjoyable, but I think I did not realize until, I don't know, the last year, how important a stable and enjoyable home life is, and how it can be incredible grounding influence in your life when everything else is on fire. [00:53:03] S1: Amen to that. And my last thing I wanna end on is a pinch me moment at Suno. It can be of any kind, but a moment where you kinda went home and said, holy smokes, like this. And it it could be anything. What was it?