Inspired with Alexa von Tobel
00:43:22 · Alexa von Tobel, Mikey Shulman
[00:43:22] S1: Mikey, just again, very few CEOs, founders are sitting in a seat where you've grown from zero to 200,000,000 of revenue in honestly, like, weeks in some ways, and from zero users to north of a 100,000,000, and I know that number is growing rapidly. Talk a little bit about the culture of speed and how you guys are managing that. [00:43:48] S0: You know, it's a really tricky balance because different trade offs are appropriate for different companies and products. And I think we have two things that are somewhat opposed. Like, speed is obviously good, and it's because, ultimately, if you're trying to invent new consumer behaviors, which is what we are trying to do, you need to show your users a lot of things. You need to ship things very, very quickly to get feedback from people. And I think, ultimately, the experimentation velocity, velocity, the the the how many experiments can you ship to your users and learn from, that is ultimately the thing that the company will live and die by. So speed is very important. But there are two things, I think, that push against one another in the speed direction. One is, at the end of the day, we are not building airplanes. We're not making medical devices. When our site goes down, it's not good, but it's not catastrophic. And so that is something that can actually allow you to move more quickly. [00:44:41] S1: That's a really good point, Mikey, that I didn't think about, which is no one's dying, and you, as a result, can go a lot faster than other businesses.
00:44:41 · Alexa von Tobel, Mikey Shulman
[00:44:41] S1: That's a really good point, Mikey, that I didn't think about, which is no one's dying, and you, as a result, can go a lot faster than other businesses. [00:44:50] S0: That is a blessing. Right? You... And we should use that. Yeah. You know? And so that's not appropriate if you're if you're building supersonic aircraft. The thing that moves against it is that if you are building for billions of people, you actually have a very high craft bar. Things need to look and feel beautiful. And, like, why do you use an iPhone when there are cheaper, honestly, capable phones, it's because, like, this thing is kind of, like, high craft and a joy to use in every way. And so that is the thing that actually pushes you against speed. And so we often just say here, it's just like, it's speed and craft. It's speed and craft. It's speed and craft. We're, like, constantly trying to push both of those. And ultimately, I think this just comes down to good judgment on the part of all of the employees here. It's like, do you have good judgment of knowing what corners you can cut and when? Because it's going to be very hard down to write down... It's gonna be very hard to write down principles. This is when you move fast, and this is when you move slow. [00:45:51] S1: Mikey, is there a sneak peek of a product or anything that's coming out that you could just maybe delight us with a bit? Is there anything that's coming that we should stay tuned for?
00:45:51 · Alexa von Tobel, Mikey Shulman
[00:45:51] S1: Mikey, is there a sneak peek of a product or anything that's coming out that you could just maybe delight us with a bit? Is there anything that's coming that we should stay tuned for? [00:46:01] S0: Oh, I think in the not so distant future, you will see new models, you will see new lyrics capabilities, and you will also see new workflows for putting yourself into music. And I think those will be really, really powerful. [00:46:18] S1: Wait. Say a little bit more. That is very exciting. What does that mean potentially? [00:46:22] S0: I can't. I can't. It's too early. Stay tuned. [00:46:26] S1: Mikey, few more questions before we go to our quick fire round. Are there any guardrails? Is there anything just culturally... And by the way, what comes out so clearly, Mikey, is just how sincerely passionate you, the Suno team is. It is so tangible that you absolutely love what you are doing. It is just so clear as I've gotten to know you better, like you are in the seat for a reason doing the thing because it is coming out of your cells. It is on the cellular level that you love what you're building. That is such a powerful cultural tenant of Suno. Are there any guardrails? Or are there like any rules or things that you guys really have to ensure that you are building Suno in the way you want to?
00:46:26 · Alexa von Tobel, Mikey Shulman
[00:46:26] S1: Mikey, few more questions before we go to our quick fire round. Are there any guardrails? Is there anything just culturally... And by the way, what comes out so clearly, Mikey, is just how sincerely passionate you, the Suno team is. It is so tangible that you absolutely love what you are doing. It is just so clear as I've gotten to know you better, like you are in the seat for a reason doing the thing because it is coming out of your cells. It is on the cellular level that you love what you're building. That is such a powerful cultural tenant of Suno. Are there any guardrails? Or are there like any rules or things that you guys really have to ensure that you are building Suno in the way you want to? [00:47:11] S0: In the product, there are obviously guardrails. We do a lot of copyright detection, so people can't be uploading copyrighted materials. There's some mild content moderation. This, I think, is a really interesting question because music has always been pretty filthy, and we don't want to be the, let's say, cultural gatekeepers there. So I think in some sense though, the domain that we are in is also really nice because we're not building something that's gonna turn the world into paper clips. We're not building something that can really be weaponized. And so, again, it it allows us to build with more speed because music is art, and in some ways is a lower stakes domain.
00:47:11 · Mikey Shulman, Alexa von Tobel
[00:47:11] S0: In the product, there are obviously guardrails. We do a lot of copyright detection, so people can't be uploading copyrighted materials. There's some mild content moderation. This, I think, is a really interesting question because music has always been pretty filthy, and we don't want to be the, let's say, cultural gatekeepers there. So I think in some sense though, the domain that we are in is also really nice because we're not building something that's gonna turn the world into paper clips. We're not building something that can really be weaponized. And so, again, it it allows us to build with more speed because music is art, and in some ways is a lower stakes domain. [00:47:55] S1: Mikey, I wanna transition a little bit before we go to the quick fire round of just you have been managing a lot. You and I even caught up a few weeks ago and you were like, Alexa, this has been a week. You were just like, you know, you're... What you're doing is so joyful and emotionally in some ways effortless because you love what you're doing, but you're also running a company that is growing profoundly, and that is not easy. Give us a quick sense of like your mentality. How are you? How have you? Have you developed a new habit? How are you managing the chaos of it all? And anything you can just pay forward on the leadership side?
00:48:35 · Mikey Shulman, Alexa von Tobel
[00:48:35] S0: I don't know if I have anything great to share here. Like, I'm mostly making this up as I go. This is still the biggest company that I've ever worked at. And, you know, and so every... Everything from here is new. I think it is really... Try to be very thrifty with my attention and really choose very carefully what do I pay attention to and what do I not pay attention to. And that can be really hard because you will have people from the outside pointing to things that are not important enough, and they can be important people pointing to things that are not important enough. And you have to just be like, I hear you, but that is not the most important thing right now. And so I'm just gonna put that to the side because, you know, everybody will say it's assembling the airplane on the way down. And I think, you know, I have heard that a 100 times, except it's very hard to actually conceptualize what that means until you're until you're in it a little bit. And so, yeah, I think I think really really being open minded also to what your schedule could and should look like. And and I think, you know, I I I thank you for the compliment before. I actually really love my job, and one of the things I love about it is how different every single day is. And I don't know if I can go back to having an honest job after doing this. So let let... Let's see what happens. [00:49:58] S1: I I I I can tell you, Mikey, I'm positive you cannot go backwards. Okay, Mikey. I am dying to ask you a few quick questions because it would be silly not to. [00:50:07] S0: Let's do it.