Inspired with Alexa von Tobel
00:32:50 · Alexa von Tobel
[00:32:50] S1: Mikey, I know there's a ton of legal dynamic that you have to manage, and you probably can't even talk about a bunch of that. But I would love just for you to share what you can on how boundaries around creation are being reshaped and maybe anything that you see.
00:33:09 · Mikey Shulman
[00:33:09] S0: We see a lot more people creating. I think that is like the first order thing. And then we see a lot more music getting made, and that is the next effect. And I think that a lot of the industry is not necessarily set up for how much music will get made in the future. Forget what happens today, and forget just Suno. You know, like, there are going to be lots of other companies that have these capabilities. And I think about this because the same thing happened with photography. You know, everybody now walks around with a camera in their pocket, and there's just way more images than there used to be. And that reshapes the place that imagery has in the world, makes it bigger. That reshapes how many people can make their livelihoods through imagery. It makes that bigger. But it changes things. And I think that people need to think a little bit harder about what what will happen when music is much more ubiquitous than it is today. I think that, you know, I'll I'll say it like this. I'm a I'm a big believer that most technologies are neutral, and it is how you use them, and that there is a really good future of music to build. But if we just sit here and say, like, well, we know music and AI is coming, and we know much more music is coming, and we can just sit back and relax and watch that happen, then it won't happen or it won't happen in the right way. And so what I tell people here is, like, we we have an incredibly lucky and privileged position to be at the forefront of shaping the future of music and AI, and we should not take that for granted, and we should be a little bit intimidated by that, but we should also really believe in human agency and our ability to shape it in the way that we want it to happen. And I think that actually that did not exactly happen for images. And I think it was like a little bit more haphazard. And so it actually makes me really optimistic about what the future of music can be if we do things right.
00:35:13 · Alexa von Tobel
[00:35:13] S1: Mikey, I wanna interject here, which is from where you sit today, if you dream five, ten years out, give us a sense of some of the things that you see that could be reimagined because of Suno? What do you see that's possible that maybe ordinary people listening don't, you know, don't fully appreciate?
00:35:34 · Mikey Shulman
[00:35:34] S0: I don't know who your favorite artist is, but imagine your favorite artist is releasing an album next week. And let's say you're really into that artist, and so you're going to sit down in front of your best speakers, put your phone on the next room, listen to that album. That would be amazing. Most people don't do that. But I think about what can the future be. Actually, maybe you had to pay $19.99 for the interactive version of that album. And you got an advanced copy with a few samples that you could make music with, or a few verses that you could make your own versions out of, and effectively make a lot of fan fiction around this artist's work. And this is a new feeling for you to feel like you are co creating with the artist. And now that artist gets to listen to all of this fan fiction. Some of them will chart. Some of them will not chart. It will build a lot of hype around the album. It will get the whole world thinking more about that artist's music. So it's good for you. You're a fan. You're enjoying yourself. It's good for the artist. They get more fan engagement. Now imagine that artist comes to New York, and they're playing MSG, and they really, really love one of the remixes that got made by one of the fans in New York. And actually, they just play that version of the song. And how incredible of a moment that would be, where you have the entire audience connecting through the fact that they're all in New York, connecting with that artist, connecting with one another. It is just a different height of musical experience that has not happened before. And I think a lot about it, like, have you been to the Sphere?
00:37:05 · Alexa von Tobel, Mikey Shulman
[00:37:05] S1: No. Not yet. It's on my bucket list for soon as possible. [00:37:09] S0: There are concerts, and then there are concerts. And you think you've been to some amazing concerts, you think all concerts are the same. And then you go to the sphere, and you realize that there's just another level of amazing that is possible. And I think that that is probably true in most things. That is definitely true in digital musical experiences, but it is also true at the nexus between digital and IRL musical experiences. And, again, it is just for lack of imagination that we haven't built these things yet. The technologies exist. [00:37:35] S1: In the same way that YouTube exploded video, and you now can follow your creators in very different ways. You can you can interact with them in different ways, and traditional television probably had some something to say about the YouTube. You're imagining a way where you can still be in love with your creator, but you can engage with them in ways that we've never been able to do before. Let's talk a little bit about those creators because what you're really doing is actually allowing more people to make money on music, more people to make a livelihood from something that they love, and potentially for people who are the best of their game of music actually to be more successful, which is a little bit of what you're really saying, which is Suno is gonna raise all boats. How do you think about that in terms of the the wealth creation for more creators?
00:38:37 · Mikey Shulman
[00:38:37] S0: I think about it like this. At the end of the day, all of the dollars in the ecosystem and music come from consumers. And if we don't build better end user experiences that people want to pay for, then we are forever in this place where we are now of inventing new ways to split the pie. And if we... That's like a bit of a... Like a fixed pie mentality makes a bit of perverse incentives for all parties. And so if we focus on giving the end user better experiences and growing the pie, it's actually just better for everyone. And so, like, a large thrust of the company is actually just thinking about, like, how are we going to end up growing the pie of music? And that is why we don't just clone other services and just make them AI powered, and we're actually trying to invent new things. I think there's something else about YouTube which is really interesting, which is a new type of star got created. You know, early YouTube, it's like these niche things, maybe I'm a I'm a gluten free chef. Maybe I'm like the best quilter of blankets in the world. What... You know, whatever it is. And this kind of slowly evolves, and these are like little micro communities, and I think, like, the musical equivalent will be these little micro genres. But eventually, that evolves into something like mister beast. Mister beast is not for linear television. Mister beast is a u... Is a YouTube star. And there will be new types of music stars, I think. And I don't know exactly what they will look like. I think Xania Monet is, like, a step in that direction, but it's it's it's not her either. And so I think this is really exciting. Like, the new forms of entertainment will get created, and, like, that's really cool.