01:47:07 · Jake Stauch, John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[01:47:07] S7: Yeah. I don't know if there's gonna be a market for artisanal [01:47:10] S0: Artisanal PHP. Software. I I think that might actually completely die off. You you get the people with the wired headphones, the vinyl records. I I think that the old PHP might just truly be forgotten forever. And... [01:47:24] S7: It'll be like pottery. It'll be like a really nice skill that you learn in a class Yes. On weekends as a hobby. [01:47:29] S0: Yes. Yes. Yes. I agree. I agree. [01:47:31] S2: How personal is is competing in this market for you with the way that you talk about ServiceNow, it seems it seems like very personal. [01:47:40] S0: Gloves off. I think [01:47:40] S7: you have to know who you're competing with, and you you have to have fun with the competition. So it's not personal. It's just we're trying to build a bigger company. And that starts with what we've done, which is build a better product. But now we've got a lot to do to execute on that and and turn it into a much bigger company. [01:47:55] S0: Well, you've certainly done that. [01:47:57] S2: You're playing with your food a little bit. But... Yeah. I love it. Very cool. [01:48:01] S7: That's what a Cerbal cat does. [01:48:03] S2: Yeah. That's it. That that was... I was aiming for something like that. [01:48:06] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Well, congratulations on the funny round. Thank you so much for coming on the show. [01:48:11] S2: Yeah. Great stuff, Jake. We'll back here soon.
01:48:11 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan, Jay Madheswaran
[01:48:11] S2: Yeah. Great stuff, Jake. We'll back here soon. [01:48:13] S0: Talk to you soon, Jake. Have a good one. Cheers. Goodbye. Let me tell you about Codex. Codex is a powerful workspace for getting work done with AI agents. Whether you're writing code, analyzing data, creating content, or automating business workflows, Codex helps you move projects forward from start to finish. Our next guest is Jay, the cofounder and CEO of Eve. More than 350,000 plaintiff cases run on Eve now, up 75% since June. That's incredible. June of this year. What's driving the growth? [01:48:45] S5: The product's working. You know, we're helping we're helping people that are kind of back against the wall get second chances. Right? And when they're using Eve, they just get seen much quicker. They get their life back on track much quicker. And that is just starting to happen at scale now. So we're starting to grow a bit more. [01:49:04] S0: How how... What's the go to market motion? You sell to lawyers directly? Do you sell to, like, IT professionals who work in large law firms? Like, what is the actual motion that [01:49:15] S5: you No. So we're... Yeah. It's a good question. So we're there for lawyers that represent people. So real people, not not institutions. [01:49:21] S0: Mhmm. [01:49:22] S5: And we basically help them service that client all the way from the very first time they talk to [01:49:27] S0: them Mhmm. All the
01:49:27 · John Coogan, Jay Madheswaran
[01:49:27] S0: them Mhmm. All the [01:49:28] S5: way to the end. Yeah. Right? And on on this side, I guess the main difference compared to in house legal or or big law is that it's not really billable hour based. They basically get paid more when they represent client... More clients and win more for them. Yeah. So incentives are really aligned. And they've been using Eve now to scale their own business. And that's part of what led us to growing so rapidly to being able to serve more than 350,000 individuals at this point. [01:49:57] S0: Is your what is your long term view of of the legal profession, the legal industry? Like, what's going to grow? I mean, it feels like cases are going to be resolved faster. We understand that will drive to settlement faster. But in the limit, I was thinking about, like, if I drink Jordi's orange juice, I owe him a dollar. He... His agent autonomously sues me. I... We settle. We don't even know that this happened, but the money is exchanged or something. Like, how crazy does this get in the limit of... Are we gonna see an explosion like a 10 x the number of cases, 10 x the number of settlements, 10 times the number of lawyers? Like, what are the vectors of change that you're seeing in the data? [01:50:39] S5: I think the biggest one that we're seeing happen already, which I'm really excited about, is... You know, historically, I think we've dealt with in America the fact that if you have more money, you do get better legal outcomes Mhmm. For the same set of facts. [01:50:53] S0: Yeah.
01:50:53 · John Coogan, Jay Madheswaran, Jared Allen, Jordi Hays
[01:50:53] S0: Yeah. [01:50:53] S5: And the reason for that is lawyers need to get paid. And historically, representing one person might require ten hours of work, twenty hours of [01:51:01] S0: work. Mhmm. [01:51:02] S5: But now with AI and Eve in general, that is now, like, a constant time on a [01:51:06] S1: work. Mhmm. [01:51:07] S5: Right? So, like, representing an additional person is not really getting that much more expensive. So they're able to represent a lot more people. And ultimately, what law exists for is advocacy. Like, you're an individual person, you have your own circumstances, and you're trying to get, you know, represented for those circumstances. And what I see happening over time is that type of representation gets easier and easier. And I don't think this means more lawsuits. I think it just means people have an avenue to get represented. [01:51:39] S0: Interesting. [01:51:40] S2: Have you bought any billboards with your face on them saying call call Jay when you wish to get in front of lawyers? Maybe not the most efficient, but basically take their ad space from them and they're like, who took my standing billboard on this freeway? And then they'll they'll chase you down.
01:51:40 · Jordi Hays, Jay Madheswaran, John Coogan
[01:51:40] S2: Have you bought any billboards with your face on them saying call call Jay when you wish to get in front of lawyers? Maybe not the most efficient, but basically take their ad space from them and they're like, who took my standing billboard on this freeway? And then they'll they'll chase you down. [01:51:59] S5: You know, we have... Our attorneys are much more attractive and handsome than I am. So we leave it up to them to get onto the billboards. But we we do help them. So, like, now what's happening is Eve actually has a component which you're able to take calls on behalf of law firm. So, for example, like, if you're calling in at 9PM, most law firms aren't staffed to handle that call because it costs so much more. Mhmm. Now Eve can actually handle that call. Mhmm. And how that's gonna change their business is now on Google reviews and Google phones, they're getting ranked much higher for their marketing spend because it's able to pick up the call instantly. [01:52:34] S0: Mhmm. [01:52:34] S5: So this is kind of the ways it's starting to trickle itself down to the marketing side as well. Because, you know, the sad truth is, like, until today, everything in how you represent a client has been so labor constrained, including even pieces you don't think about, like marketing.
01:52:34 · Jay Madheswaran, John Coogan
[01:52:34] S5: So this is kind of the ways it's starting to trickle itself down to the marketing side as well. Because, you know, the sad truth is, like, until today, everything in how you represent a client has been so labor constrained, including even pieces you don't think about, like marketing. [01:52:49] S0: Yeah. What are the other pieces that are less automatable? I'm thinking about, like, the investigation discovery, just, you know, if there's some... Like, evidence needs to be collected in a lot of these. There might need to be interviews that happen. Like, what what is still the domain of the human investigator, the contractor that's hired by the plaintiff's attorney? What else is is the is the picture that's, complementary to your business, but maybe not in the in the sights just yet? [01:53:19] S5: I think in in general, today, we're still very much on behalf of the law firm. So law firm still has case managers. They still have attorneys and paralegals, and we're just making that more efficient. [01:53:31] S0: Yeah. [01:53:32] S5: Today, I think Voice AI isn't quite at the spot where it needs to [01:53:36] S0: be Yeah. [01:53:36] S5: To fully automate things like client outreach and talking to them, getting there. Those are features we have, but in terms of how far it can go, I still think you need a human element.