Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:00:00] S0: The first thing that flashes through my head is, you know, in my show, I always ask people the same question at the end of, "What's the kindest thing anyone's ever done for you?" Some person on Twitter or something went and compiled every answer, there's 500 answers or whatever, and categorized them and, like, made a pie chart of what people say. And something like two-thirds of the answer to this question were the same, which was the kindest thing was some person made a bet on me, the person answering the question, before I deserved it. Or, like, they saw something in me that maybe I didn't even see in myself. They bet on me before others would. And that was the answer to the kindest thing. And when I was 26, I became very interested in all of the... I studied philosophy early in life and I've always been interested in that stuff. But I became really interested in the religious texts, like all the world's religious texts. And I was kind of in a weird spot in life. I kind of hadn't found anything to do yet. I wasn't that good at anything and I was searching. I was always searching for, like, "What the hell should I do? What the hell is the point of all this?" And I found this passage in the Upanishads, which, as a book, is probably the most important book to me. And the Upanishads is this collection of stories from many of thousands of years ago that were passed down orally through generations and then eventually written down. And I remember getting stuck on this one passage that literally felt like someone hit me in the face with a hammer. And there's a line in this passage that basically says something like, "Those who feed the hungry protect me. Those who don't are consumed by me." And it just felt like there was a moment of understanding that happened in my head. But up until that point, from, you know, middle of teenage, I was this nice, sweet boy, and then I got kind of hardened and went through a period of life that was tough. And it woke me up that the whole point of this is to help other people. That's it. That's the entire point of this existence. And from that point forward, that's been my worldview. And so I think it's interesting, like, that's probably the thing that most informed my worldview.
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, David Senra
And then the answer to this question that I love to ask is predominantly, "Someone bet on me." And like I told you before, the thing I love more than anything is, like, seeing the potential in somebody before everyone else and then helping the world see what I see. Like, if I can do one thing over and over and over again the rest of my life, it would be audition people to see if there's something that I see that no one else sees and then help foster that and show everyone else what I think I see in a way that can be impactful in that person's life, which is what you described with our experience together. [00:00:00] S1: I think in the probably hundreds, I don't know, thousand conversations we've had, I don't think you've ever described it in such an easy-to-understand, impactful way like you just did, where it's just like, the whole point of this whole thing is just to help other people. [00:00:00] S0: You said before you were chasing something, right? [00:00:00] S1: Yeah.
· David Senra, Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:00:00] S1: Yeah. [00:00:00] S0: I'm not chasing anything. I think it might be an interesting conversation today to talk about... or, you know, how we view what we're doing in slightly different ways. But I have no goals. I'm not a goals person. I've written essays about not having goals. The most read thing I ever wrote, back when I used to do a lot of writing, was about... it was called The Growth Without Goals. And so, I'm not chasing any particular thing. I don't have a big, hairy, audacious goal or something like this. I don't want to put someone on Mars like Elon might. And not to say that that's a bad thing. I think some people are goal-oriented and that's awesome. But that's not me. And I guess I've realized that if I have a goal in the abstract sense, it's just this thing, over and over and over again. There's this amazing talk that I recommend everyone watch called Inventing on Principle. Have you seen this? [00:00:00] S1: Yeah.
· David Senra, Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:00:00] S1: Yeah. [00:00:00] S0: It was a talk given by a computer scientist named Bret Victor, and he espouses this idea that you should find a principle that you want to... his principle was digital creators should have instant feedback with their creation. So just like if you paint something with a paintbrush, you get instant feedback. You see the paint immediately. Whereas in computer science, you'd have to code over here and compile, and then you'd eventually see your result. There was this gap. And so his principle was to collapse that gap. That was his life's mission. And I love that way of thinking about finding one's life's mission, is find a principle. Don't necessarily have a goal, but find a principle. And my principle is, like, when I see undiscovered talent, it is my obligation to do this thing, to get to know them, to learn from them, to start introducing them to people, to start... I don't need to get anything out of it. Like, what I get out of it is the thing. That's the point. [00:00:00] S1: But you're one of the few people in the world that have actually identified this organizing principle and then built a wonderful business around that. [00:00:00] S0: Yeah. [00:00:00] S1: And I could see, like... We've talked about this a million times, but the media and investing are not two separate things. If you actually know Patrick and what is important to him, like, they are the exact same thing.
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, David Senra
[00:00:00] S0: It's taken me a long time to articulate that principle. A decade. And that's okay. Like, don't get discouraged if you don't watch Bret Victor's talk and can't name your principle an hour later. Like, it takes time. But, you know you've found your principle when it starts informing literally every decision you make every day with your time. And that's what it does for me and it becomes universal. Like, on my team, for example. We're 16 people, something like that. Now, this is how I think about my team. It's like, "Who can I find and see something in and bring them in and then make their career explode, hopefully, in an amazing way?" And so it can be investing, it can be just in friendship, it can be on your team. Like, a good principle can be applied everywhere. And that's why I think this idea is so powerful, to do the work to find your principle for invention. And I have no idea where it will take us, that's the other fun part. One of the reasons I don't like goals is I think very talented people, when they set a goal, they tend to do it. And that's why goals are interesting to lots of people, it's a great way to make progress. But I find it unexciting because the second you set some big goal, you kind of know what's going to happen because you go do it and you know the road in front of you, and you have blinders on. And I don't actually like having blinders on. I like to go-- Everything that's ever worked for me has come out of the periphery. You know, Sam Hinkie texts me about you. Like, I wasn't looking for a podcaster to promote. [00:00:00] S1: Yeah.
· David Senra, Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:00:00] S1: Yeah. [00:00:00] S0: You were not the result of some goal that I was seeking. You were just something that like, came out of left field. And everything interesting I've ever done came out of left field, which is why I don't keep long-term goals or short-term goals, is that opportunity just... I'm very open to opportunity along this principle, and so I'm very enamored of this idea for how to live. [00:00:00] S1: At what age did you stop having goals?