Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, David Senra
If a documentary is the ultimate profile, maybe that's even harder than writing a profile. But, yeah, I'm interested in stuff that's very hard to make and that's singular, that can't be easily copied. And, I mean, the literal answer to your question, it's kind of funny, was somebody – I'm actually seeing him Monday, gave me the idea to potentially buy this existing magazine. And we didn't buy it because I like to create our own things primarily. But it was notable to me that this magazine, which had been around for a long time, had all these incredible... I'd never heard of the magazine, and it had all these incredible people on the cover and I thought, "This is strange. Why are these people doing this magazine that no one's ever heard of?" Big names. And it dawned on me, I was like, "Oh, it's the cover." People can't say no to a cover. And so I tested that theory out and it was true, and I think what that means is it's, like, the ultimate form of spotlight and attention that you can give to somebody, and so that's what got me actually literally spinning on, like, "Oh, maybe we should... I would love to have a cover that I could dole out." [00:00:00] S1: Did that idea come before or after you read Jeremy Stern's piece on Palmer Luckey?
· David Senra, Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:00:00] S1: Did that idea come before or after you read Jeremy Stern's piece on Palmer Luckey? [00:00:00] S0: Before. So I was then on the hunt. And this is another idea that you and I talk about often, which is, if you want to hire someone for a thing, just go consume as much of the thing made by a million people as possible. Whoever made the best one, go for them. There was this funny conversation during COVID, an investor friend of mine, one of the great investors ever who's now retired. It was part of the Zoom conversation, and the topic of the conversation was attributes of great founders, and at some point someone goes, "Well, maybe it'd be easier to think about them not as founders, but as inventors," and everyone thought, "Oh, that's a cool idea. Okay, let's talk about them as inventors, not as founders." And then someone said, "Well, what are the attributes of a great inventor?" And people started, you know, "They're this, they're this, they're this," and this one investor's face started contorting and you could just see that he was frustrated by all these answers, and it got to him, and he was like, "Morons, who cares? Did they make a good invention?" Like, if the invention is good, the inventor is probably good. [00:00:00] S1: Yeah.
· David Senra, Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:00:00] S1: Yeah. [00:00:00] S0: And so I think you and I have taken that approach to... I certainly have, to finding people. Like, just look at what they did. Jeremy wrote the best profile that I read. Turns out he's a great profile writer. Like, he's written 10 more and will write 100 more. I was then on the hunt after I and we had this idea to go now, "Okay, now let's go find the best people to do this thing." [00:00:00] S1: People vastly underestimate the importance of volume. [00:00:00] S0: Yeah.
· David Senra
[00:00:00] S1: Like, whatever you're into, just be into it more than anybody else and, like, you'll be able to tell, like, what is a good idea, what is a bad idea. It's, like, this constant refinement of taste. In fact, I was shocked at the way your profile started with, about Josh Kushner and where it was, like, this visit to Rick Rubin's house, and I'm a huge Rick Rubin fan. Like, I read a biography on him, I think it's episode 245 of Founders, did that. I think some of his interviews and stuff he says in an interview, it can be a three-hour conversation and you just hear, like, there's a 45-second clip that makes everything, like, it just makes perfect sense… I needed to hear that whole three-hour conversation just to get that 45-second clip and that 45-second idea in my head. But if you think of the guy started his record company in, like, 1984 in his dorm room. And he's been in the same business, he's worked with all these different musicians. In fact, he said something that was interesting to me, and I actually screenshotted it, saved it, and I reread it on my phone. And he talked about that the most obsessive artist he ever worked with was Eminem, which is, like, wait a minute, you worked with everybody, you've had a four-decade-long career. Why is that the case? Like, that makes me want to know more about that. Our mutual friend, Brent Beshore, told me this hilarious story one time. You know, Brent's got… he owns a bunch of different companies, and sometimes those companies need a CEO. And he found himself, I think, at a lunch or a dinner with Charlie Munger, and so he's like, "You know, I'm this young guy." I think he was probably 35 at the time. He said, "I own these, like, 12 companies. How do you and Warren find great CEOs?" And Charlie's just like, "We just find somebody that is a great CEO and say, 'Come do that for us.'"
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, David Senra
[00:00:00] S0: Yeah. [00:00:00] S1: And Brent's follow-up, he goes, "Yeah, but what about hiring for potential?" He goes, "We don't do that." It's just a beautifully simple idea. "He's really good. Can you come do this over here?" [00:00:00] S0: Yeah. People show you. And I think that also, if you invert that, to use another Mungerism, it serves as great advice too, which is if you're trying to get ahead, put stuff out in the world that people can find. Hinkie would call these breadcrumbs. Put breadcrumbs out into the world so that people see it and are amazed by it. Like, if you create a single thing, not – you don't have to do 10 things. Just one thing that people are amazed by. Pour a year of your life into making one amazing thing that people are amazed by, and amazing things will happen, I promise you. Like, the internet is amazing at sharing something that is great. You say there's always room for great. [00:00:00] S1: Yeah. [00:00:00] S0: One of your maxims. That's true. Great takes time. Great's hard. [00:00:00] S1: Well, you just proved this. The idea of there's always room for great came because so many people are like, "We don't need another podcast." I was like, "Okay, so we don't need any more music?" [00:00:00] S0: Yeah. [00:00:00] S1: "We're going to stop making music? We're going to stop making movies?" Like, no, it's just like we need less bad shit, but that's always going to happen. Like, there's always room for great. You just proved this with the profiles. [00:00:00] S0: Yeah.
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, David Senra
[00:00:00] S0: Yeah. [00:00:00] S1: Like, that idea was just hiding in plain sight. It was just not being done well. And it's like, well, what if I just take this idea and not make it shitty? Well, how Walt Disney towards the end of his life was very fascinating because everybody associates him with animation and Mickey Mouse and everything else. And yet, when he's towards the end of his life, you just ask, "What is the things that he's most proud of?" And he said he named two things. He said, "Keeping control of my company," because he lost control of his first company, and he's lost control of the first characters he made, and Disneyland. And Disneyland was his obsession. In fact, I read this book called "Disney's Land." I think it's by Richard, this guy named Richard Snow. And it's not about the animation, it's not about everything we know him for. It's about how he thought about making this amusement park. And at the time, amusement parks were think of… like, low quality. [00:00:00] S0: Yeah, sure. [00:00:00] S1: They were kind of scammy because- [00:00:00] S0: Traveling carnies. [00:00:00] S1: Yeah, exactly. Like, you would come in there, and there'd be, like, games to play, and you'd get ripped off because the games were set up and everything else. And he's going around trying to raise money for this, very unsuccessfully. And they're like, "Yeah, but, you know, amusement parks are, like, kind of trashy." He's like, "That's the point. Mine won't be." [00:00:00] S0: Yeah.