Inspired with Alexa von Tobel
00:48:01 · Ben Lamm, Alexa von Tobel
[00:48:01] S2: So we're so we're in the editing phase. Right? So so, in Chip and Dale, our woolly mice were a, some people mischaracterize it and said, oh, well, this is a good first step. It's really a validation step. Right? Because, like, we we didn't just start the mammoth. So we've done a a... We've gotten a lot of the ancient DNA through partners like Love Dalén and and others. We've done a lot. We... We've actually... We colossal had to go build genome for the African elephant, the Borneo elephant, the Asian elephant. Like, none of those existed, so we had to go build those reference genomes and open source does for the world. And then we've done the comparative genomics, and there's about 85 genes and probably multiple edits in a couple of the genes. So don't know the exact edit count yet, and and that that we're editing. And so we're in the editing phase. We created, stem cells from elephants, which is insanely hard. And now we're in the editing phase, and, we made edits to about 25 of the 85 targeted genes. And then we tested some of the cold tolerant phenotypes like, fat metabolism and then, coat color and woolly woolly... The texture and how it grows in a mouse model because it's twenty days of gestation versus twenty two months to verify if we're on the right track. We... What's what's incredible about that project is we did it in one month. And then one month later, we had woolly mice, which was amazing. So it shows that the system works really, really quickly. [00:49:24] S1: That super dumb question. Do you literally invent a new species with the woolly mice?
00:49:29 · Ben Lamm
[00:49:29] S2: No. So so this goes... So that you asked the biggest critic question. Right? And and there's two. There's why don't you just focus on conservation? But that's an education thing that... You know, we have a we have a $50,000,000 foundation that we just donate people working on conservation, and then we open source all of our technologies for conservation. So I think of this as like a free research and development thing for conservation. The second one kinda goes to your Willie Mouse question. It's that there's about 30 different ways to classify a species. Speciation is a human construct. It's not something that nature invented. Right? And so you separate... You put a fork in a river of forks and it separates these two toads over some period of time. If there's different environmental pressures or different predation, different survival of the fittest, you're gonna have two different species. Right? And so some people will classify polar bears as the same species, even though a child will be like, well, that's a white Arctic adapted bear, and this is a brown bear that's not aquatic adapted. Yet they can interbreed and produce viable offsprings, and they do it all day long. And so there's our species definitions where if a species can interbreed, it's it's not... It should be the same species. But a child will tell you that a brown bear and a polar bear are not the same thing. And by the way, they are classified as two different species. So so, this... I don't think the woolly mouse... The way I think about it is I don't think the woolly mouse is a new species. Some people think it is and some people think it's not. Right? And so there's just... This is this human construct of how we lay... We we like to compartmentalize things and put things in boxes. That's how we as as as this this current evolution of hominids look at things and put things in box. And and and and so that... That's how we think about them. But, you know, what's what's what's interesting on the the direwolf stuff is that, you know, no one... You know, we had indigenous people groups, we had private landowners, we had, you know, the the the government which causes, you know, I thought it was a good thing to tell our government regardless of what party they're on, what we were doing. I thought that's a good responsible thing for me to do as the CEO.
00:51:48 · Ben Lamm
We got negative feedback on that, but the the biggest feedback that we got was, you know, 20% of the paleo community and the evolutionary biology community wanted to argue classification. But if you look at the phylogenetic tree of life, 99.9% of all of life is based on where it lived, when it lived, and its morphological state. Like, we don't have DNA for all of that. And so and so based on the morphological definition of species and the fact that we use the DNA from The US, we use a donor wolf from The US, so it kinda lives here. It it it met numerous of those... Of of the species definition, but but that's that's been the biggest... It's surprising to me, but that's been the biggest debate. You know? Every day we get this. I don't know why that's the debate. When every single day we get, like, parents sending in and teachers sending in stuff like this and like I got this couple weeks ago where like people like draw us, like make... Like they made this for us and they like write like, you know, multi page letters to us and it's like, okay, we're doing something right because we're helping species. We're building cool technologies that can help human healthcare, and then, you know, we're also inspiring kids, and I don't don't know how helpful to to conservation inspiring kids or to developing technologies for for for human health care. I don't know how how arguing what to call something, whether a woolly mouse is a new species or a dire wolf is a dire wolf or transgenic wolf, like, I don't know how that helps any of those causes. So Yeah. It We But those are those are the biggest that that
00:53:23 · Alexa von Tobel
[00:53:23] S1: that This was this was this was beautiful because we actually... First of all, those were also some really great pictures that get sent your way every day. That's pretty cool. You're creating the platform to help prepare us for extinction. And as we all know, like, we all live on one planet, and all Yeah. Every species is why the other species can evolve and live and thrive. And, no. I mean, you're pre preparing us, to be able to stay alive.
00:53:53 · Ben Lamm
[00:53:53] S2: It's very convicted, and and I think that's something that entrepreneurs have to do is, like, you know, everyone's like, oh, what... What's that old saying? It's like, love what you do. You don't work a day in your life. Yep. We feel beyond that. We feel very convicted about our mission. You know, there's people out there like Elon that are saying, you know, we also have to make Earth multi... Or make life multi planetary and take human consciousness, which I also agree with. And so I think that you have to be very convicted about it. Right? And so, like, what what some people don't realize is, like, when we... We're doing something that's big and is bold and sometimes that's scary. And there was a time when they... Like, the auto manufacturers debated whether putting seat belts in cars because they thought it was too scary. But we all know that seat belts save lives. Right? And so so we... I I just believe... I'm very convicted on in our... On our mission and, you know, the best case scenario is everything works out and we change... We we develop renewable energies and, you know, we've got limitless energy and we've got limitless clean water and we find a way to live it with nature better and, you know, we don't need any of this technology. Cool. We at least had... Someone was working on an insurance plan.
00:55:08 · Alexa von Tobel, Ben Lamm
[00:55:08] S1: Thank you for working on the insurance plan for all of us. Ben, I wanna end on one question because I truly could sit here and talk to you for four more hours. In fact, that's all I wanna do, and I'm jealous that Joe Rogan got so many hours with you. I wanna end on one thing, which is you are to your bones ambitious. And actually, comes... What's amazing getting to know you is it's effortless for you. It's very clear to me that the way you think is effortless. If you are going to just inspire people out there, entrepreneurs everywhere, to be a little bit more ambitious for the sake of our future, how would you put that in words? [00:55:45] S2: I think you just have to not, you have to be convicted about what you're doing and and and really believe you're doing something right. And and if more... And if, you know, you're getting negative feedback, you just have to not listen. Like, the best advice I ever got was not to listen to any advice. [00:56:05] S1: And to get fired for not wearing their uniform. [00:56:08] S2: Yeah. Accenture was because they didn't like me, but they... But the... But but that... But the movie the movie studio... Yeah. I mean, they had just ridiculous suspenders. And I was like, why do you need suspenders in the first place? And why... If you have them, why do they have to be so ridiculous? [00:56:25] S1: No. But all jokes aside, you're absolutely right. You've gotta be able to put on blinders and chart your own path. And you've gotta be comfortable being you're not always gonna be liked, and you're not always gonna be understood.