Relentless
01:14:30 · Brian Armstrong
[01:14:30] S0: Well, I mean, should mention inside Coinbase, we have the next best program I mentioned to do internal innovation, but we also do external innovation. I mean, so we have Coinbase Ventures, and if employees want to leave to start companies, we'll often put a check-in there too. So we're open to all of those. Oftentimes, makes sense to do it internally because you get the distribution of the Coinbase. But if it doesn't make sense, if you wanna leave, we're also supportive of that. I... So... And then just more broadly, your question about, like, how to decide who to work with in these other areas. Like, if it's not really into crypto or financial services at all, there might... You know, I've done some as a separate company. And how do you... Mean, how do you decide what... Who to work with? It's it's a lot like who to hire as well. It's like you're looking for people that are high agency, great communicators, high integrity. They raise your energy when you meet with them. They're bringing new ideas to the table. Part of it is, like, just going off of excitement. It's like when you when you meet with one of these people and you're like, that would be awesome for the world, and this is a fun and interesting conversation. I kinda wanna have more conversations like this. Let's put a check-in and see what happens. Like, it could... It can literally be that simple. Because if you're excited about it, other smart people are gonna be excited about it. That is, like, half the battle to just getting the right group of people in the room to sometimes go try something really ambitious and fun and crazy.
01:15:46 · Ty Morse
[01:15:46] S1: I've seen multiple interviews where you talked about going on a week long vacation. And I kind of want to know at what point does Brian Armstrong decide to go on that week long vacation? And then how does your psychology change from the first day on the beach to the seventh day where you feel the anxiety of wanting to get back to work?
01:16:06 · Brian Armstrong, Ty Morse
[01:16:06] S0: Yeah. Well, this is one of those things about, like, making it sustainable, right, for... To be able to do this for the long term. So I actually... I schedule four weeks a year in advance. They're scheduled. Because if you if you just kinda wait, oh, I'll go when there's time. There's never, like, a good time. So you kinda have to schedule in advance. And some of those weeks, it's just like it's the Christmas holiday or something. Other weeks, it's... I'm going to some conference something that's, like, kinda work but kinda not. Other ones, I'm, like, truly... The other two, I'm usually taking, a real vacation, like family and stuff. Yeah. I mean, it's true that my psychology is, like, really messy on some of those trips, actually, because sometimes at the beginning, I'm like, I'm exhausted. Like, this would be a good moment to, like, take a break. But usually within, like, two to three days, I start to get anxious that I'm, like, not... I actually kind of want to start thinking about work and doing different things again. And I will often end up reading a bunch of interesting stuff, calling random people about ideas and starting to think about the future and come back with better ideas. Right? So that's kind of the purpose of vacation. But honestly, like, sometimes half to vacate... I don't know. The way the way that some people do vacation is you wake up early and you go on this... To this museum and this touristy thing. I actually really don't like doing... I don't like doing touristy stuff. [01:17:30] S1: I hate
01:17:30 · Ty Morse, Brian Armstrong
[01:17:30] S1: I hate [01:17:31] S0: tours. Yeah. So what I usually do is I like sleep in, go to the gym, have an amazing brunch, maybe do, like, one hike or thing like that for the day. But the rest of the day, I'm just... I have, like, quiet, unscheduled time where I'm just, like, reading interesting things, calling people, thinking about the future, writing writing ideas down. So I I use it as a moment to, yeah, like, I guess, yeah, think about what to do next. [01:18:00] S1: What's been the best thing that's come out of one of those vacations? [01:18:03] S0: Well, I mean, what... Again, an example is what we just talked about actually, like, the embryo editing dinner kinda came out of that. It was just like, I was just reading a ton of stuff about this, and is it ready? And I was calling random people. And like, why has nobody tried this? Have they tried this? Did it work? Did it not work? Like, really? Why is... You know, these are the kind of conversations I was having. I was like, alright. I gotta I gotta just gotta do do a do a dinner So kick that off, kick that expost off, like... And that... That's an example. But it's really just kind of following your nose. Like, whatever you get excited about, go read about and then see if you wanna [01:18:34] S1: take some action. You've mentioned multiple times in this conversation this idea of finding people like, surrounding yourself with people that give you energy, just kinda, like, light your fire. What's been the best way that you have found
01:18:46 · Brian Armstrong
[01:18:46] S0: those types of people? So part of it is just, like, in a normal recruiting function, you can have people that are aligned to what you want, and they can go and source a bunch of people, and they can bring... Filter and then bring the top people in. So that's like a normal hiring process. I think that you can also try to attract entrepreneurial energy into the company by doing the things I mentioned like next bets. And if someone leaves, well, Coinbase Ventures will maybe put a check-in. So cultivating a... A lot of the people that raise my energy the most are really entrepreneurial. Right? They're like high agency builders trying to create the future, like all the stuff that you're you know, putting out on this on this podcast and, like, teaching people how to be relentless. Right? It's like that is such a critical skill set. So it's attracting entrepreneurs into the company. Actually, I think, like, three or four of the executive team now are founders that got acquired in, and that's been, like, really fun to work with. I think the other way you can do it is, like, putting out the bat signal, right, which is, like, basically on social media or x or your blog or whatever... Your podcast, wherever you wanna... I think in any given time, you should be blasting out the things that you're most excited about in the world, and then the right people will sometimes pop up and find you. And you got to give them an opportunity to do it, though, by saying publicly what you're interested in. So that's probably the other way. These dinners... It it can turn into dinners. It can turn into, like, if you're just randomly in some city, like, go meet with these people, go give a talk somewhere, and make... Say something contrarian but right and, like, see who shows up, these these kind of things.
01:20:18 · Ty Morse, Brian Armstrong
[01:20:18] S1: I kind of wanna touch on this idea of proof of work. [01:20:21] S0: Yeah. Money is the ultimate proof of work, by the way. It's like, literally, you did a bunch of hard stuff and you got money, and then it's like... It's... Anyway, proof proof of work. [01:20:30] S1: So something that I've kind of recently come to the conclusion is the proof of work is just, like, one of the most valuable things in the world, and yet most people underprioritize it. [01:20:39] S0: Mhmm. [01:20:39] S1: And so proof of work is not only that you did... Like, not only take action and do things, but also share the thing that you did. And it's kind of funny how far you can get by literally just, like, the first interview that I ever did was over Zoom, and it looks horrible. And I didn't know at all what I was doing, and my computer battery overheated and shut off and all this stuff. And now we're, you know, recording this two and a half years later, two and a quarter years later. Yeah. And we've gotten almost to the best in the world on some metrics in all Yeah. And we'll keep on going. [01:21:08] S0: It's been amazing. The access, like, the people... Yeah. You're doing something right for sure. [01:21:12] S1: Thank you, Brian. Yeah. How do you kind of filter for that proof of work and make sure that not only are you, like, saying this is what we're going to go do as a company and this is what I care about, but also this is what we are doing, like, done? [01:21:25] S0: You know, in terms of hiring people or in terms of For example,