00:00:53 · Andre Degler, Uwe Horstmann
[00:00:53] S0: Right. This is great. So it's your personal background. Can you talk a tiny bit more about what you did before, actually Sure. Founding Project A? [00:01:03] S1: So I'm lucky enough to have been doing this now for ten years. So Project A, we started in 2011, so quite quite a long time, and quite interesting also to see how the European ecosystem has developed in that time. I'm saying European because not only the Berlin ecosystem, but like all aspects of the content, think, have witnessed a great development when it comes to startups. So first of all, ten long years in that field, but then before that, I was one of the managing directors of Rocket Internet. Like then, Rocket Internet, to be honest and, yeah, also be fair, was of course much smaller, especially in the beginning. Yeah, spent a few great years there, which of course were very very formative, both for me and very important also for the Berlin ecosystem, and then we decided to do something new, which was starting an own venture capital fund, which of course at that time we had no real idea about what that means, how that works, what is important, but very thankful that we did it, and now ten years later we can we can look back, I think, on interesting path so far that, of course, as I mentioned, is closely intertwined with a fantastic growth in the European ecosystem. [00:02:13] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And so I was looking at your LinkedIn, and this is the the job at Rocket Internet is the first one listed there. So did you actually join them straight out of college?
00:02:13 · Andre Degler, Uwe Horstmann
[00:02:13] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And so I was looking at your LinkedIn, and this is the the job at Rocket Internet is the first one listed there. So did you actually join them straight out of college? [00:02:22] S1: Yeah. Pretty much. Pretty much. It was a very small group back there... Back then. And, yeah, nobody had, I think, a clear view in mind that, oh, in next years, we're gonna have to do IPO, and everything's gonna be massive. I think it's fair to say that, you know, it was very exploratory, as all great entrepreneurial journeys probably are. So I was just very lucky and happy to be in the right moment, at the at the right time, and, was able to kind of benefit from that also. Hopefully, we did a good job also, but definitely I'm definitely very thankful for that opportunity to learn at a really young age and get exposure to a lot of responsibility also at a young age. That is, of course, something that is great about our industry in general, but back then specifically, yeah, that was fantastic. [00:03:11] S0: Are you still in contact with Rocket Internet management, people you worked with back then? [00:03:17] S1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Here and there, for sure. I mean, the the network itself is is pretty strong, so definitely. Also to the company itself from time to time, but mostly with people who also shared a joint... Who share a joint history with Rocket or at Rocket. For sure. Yeah. That network is pretty strong. [00:03:38] S0: What do you think of what the company has become in these ten years?
00:03:41 · Uwe Horstmann
[00:03:41] S1: Very good question. I mean, I'm I'm still looking at it quite from an interesting... Like, as a very interested observer, because I'm trying to understand, you know, how is that public market model of stocks compatible with what we do here as as venture capitalists. Right? I mean, how does that bridge look like? How does the public look at those businesses that in the beginning don't make money, they burn a lot of money, they, can become successful, they can become market defining. So, you know, I'm I'm I'm grateful for the for the courage that that people are taking to put those companies also in the stock market. We'll have to see, I think, how exactly they are treated on the on the public market, how compatible those two models are. So that's kinda, like, how how I see it. It's definitely still super important and played a big role, just alone from a talent pool perspective. Right? Because back then, let's say, you know, 2008 to 2010, if you wanted to get into the startup ecosystem, how did you even do that? Because it it was not as obvious as it is now that you can just start your own company. You probably needed Yeah. Some expert advice and so on, and and that role for a lot of people was taken over by Rocket. And now probably it's it's taken over by by more accelerators or by angels or just by reading blogs or listening to podcasts and so on. Now that information flows freely. But back then, I think it needed a catalyst, that can absorb people and help them build their careers. And then that's how I at least, see Rocket, and that's what they were... What a company was really, really good at. And now I think the role is probably different because that specific aspect is not needed to that degree anymore. Right? As as I mentioned, if you want to if you're fresh out of school and you wanna start your startup, you can just do it. You don't need anyone else anymore. And that, of course, also has changed a bit of the role that a company like Rocket would have to play in such an ecosystem.
00:05:41 · Andre Degler, Uwe Horstmann
[00:05:41] S0: Yeah. Well, it certainly was a catalyst for you. Don't think I don't think it happens a lot now that someone who is joining a company straight out of college after three years just cofound a a venture capital firm that that becomes pretty successful in in its early years even. So I don't think it happens a lot right now. [00:06:03] S1: Yeah. Yeah. I... It... Me, personally, I mean, it it was a bit of a perfect storm. Things happened. Things came together, and then we had investors who really early on gave us a, you know, a a a big chunk of trust, obviously, by going onto the journey with us because we were first timers, emerging managers as they call them. And among our group, I was by far obviously the the youngest and and least experienced. So I'm very thankful for our investors, but also for my partners that they said, okay. Now let's take this young kid alongside us, and hopefully, he can carry his weight, of course. [00:06:38] S0: Right. So... And it is a good, a good segue into, talking about the firm itself. So what is Project A? What's your thesis like? What's your ticket size? What are you looking for? Give me the pitch.
00:06:51 · Uwe Horstmann
[00:06:51] S1: Yeah. The the short pitch is that we are pan European, so we have an office in London, one in Berlin, and presence through, you our people all over the continent, because we think great companies can start to exist everywhere. We are very thesis driven, so we have an investment team of around 10 people, all of them with their very specific, very concrete both industry expertise but also with thesis about those specific industries. So very conviction driven, very much based on our own interest in certain segments that are emerging in the market. We invest somewhere between 500 k and €10,000,000, I would say, over multiple rounds. In a company like Trade Republic, we can then also invest like $3,040,000,000, so we can definitely move a lot of money for successful companies who can grow even faster with that with that money. What's special about us is that we have a 100 people operational team on staff. To my knowledge, that's not something that anybody else has, at least in Europe. So 100 people working for a venture capital firm. Those are all operators. So we're talking marketing, acquisition, retention. We're talking product, technology. We're talking sales, business development, but also recruiting, organization building, all kinds of aspects of what you need when you when you build a business. And those people are available to you if you want them. It's not a must. It's not we are not forcing them upon you. We don't take sweat equity, nothing. They're purely available to you if you want them. If you want them now, if you want them later, if you wanted to have just a few experts, if you want to have a broad bench because your scaling is just not controllable without some support, that's totally up to you. But if we invest, you get everything that you get out of a normal venture capital firm as well as the optionality. If you ever want and need it, you can draw from our resources. Because back when we started, the world wasn't just waiting for another bunch of dudes who start spreading checks. You know, it was true back then. It's true now. So you have to think about how do you differentiate yourself. And we're operators. We're entrepreneurs ourselves, so we wanted to align our interests as much as we can with our with our founders, and we did that by trying to create operational value add. That's the idea. That's what we're trying to do.
00:09:13 · Uwe Horstmann, Andre Degler
That's why we have those 100 people. [00:09:16] S0: Mhmm. This sounds a tiny little bit Rocket Internet esque to me, having this sort of back office that can be shared by a startup that you invest in. Is this this on purpose? Is this something that you learned would make sense? [00:09:31] S1: I mean, we we... At Rocket, we definitely saw the power that you can have by combining great entrepreneurial talent with a good workbench that they can also build upon. But that's also where the similarities end. So for us, we only invest in companies that are stand alone, that are successful, that are great, and then we offer them the optionality on top if they want to. We never would like to take over control of a company. Companies always, of course, have to build their own culture, have to build up their own teams and so on. We can help, but we will only help basically, obviously as much as we need it, but then as little as possible. Right? Because we don't want to create companies that are somehow dependent on us. And the really good entrepreneurs, they wouldn't be interested in that. Entrepreneurs are interested in getting specific support here and there on specific challenges, and then they build up their own stuff. And that's totally what we want to do. And that was, of course, different from what we did at Rocket almost a decade ago.