A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders
00:03:33 · George, Pablo Srugo
[00:03:33] S0: Two ish years ago, I was running a different company, a role called Gattaca, because I like that film and the scene where he swims and then he doesn't give up. But it was a different company. It was like a YOLO model to do computer vision two way testing. We became profitable quite quickly, but I returned the money because it was a small market, and I had a co founder breakup. And so the big learning there was like, we're never doing a small market again. [00:03:54] S1: You shut it down. Like, you literally said, kid, it's just not big enough. You you hit pause, return to whatever capital you had, and and moved on. [00:04:00] S0: Yeah. We're we're friends, but someone I've known for seven years who was a I found an engineer in the company that I sold, we had a breakup and then it became clear that like, QA is just not it. And I felt like I could've done the world to my will. Every VC said this is a bad market. I said no. And then
00:04:00 · George, Pablo Srugo
[00:04:00] S0: Yeah. We're we're friends, but someone I've known for seven years who was a I found an engineer in the company that I sold, we had a breakup and then it became clear that like, QA is just not it. And I felt like I could've done the world to my will. Every VC said this is a bad market. I said no. And then [00:04:17] S1: yeah. Well, you know, this is I know that we're just starting, but I'll take you on a tangent even just right now because this is a classic failure mode in the sense that founders, they wanna feel like they're relentless, like they never quit, they never give up. And yet, I've met many founders like you who gave up on a certain feature or idea or even company, but didn't give up being a founder, which is effectively what you did. Like, how do you think through that? When is it kinda like you're you're giving up prematurely and you should've just fought harder and and success was right there? And when is it like, you know what? It's actually okay to say this is not gonna work, give the money back, refresh, restart, and go a different direction?
00:04:17 · Pablo Srugo, George
[00:04:17] S1: yeah. Well, you know, this is I know that we're just starting, but I'll take you on a tangent even just right now because this is a classic failure mode in the sense that founders, they wanna feel like they're relentless, like they never quit, they never give up. And yet, I've met many founders like you who gave up on a certain feature or idea or even company, but didn't give up being a founder, which is effectively what you did. Like, how do you think through that? When is it kinda like you're you're giving up prematurely and you should've just fought harder and and success was right there? And when is it like, you know what? It's actually okay to say this is not gonna work, give the money back, refresh, restart, and go a different direction? [00:04:52] S0: I think it's a tier zero question. I would not listen to anything I'm saying this because I'm a nobody and still figuring this out. My stance on this is following your energy. And like, if you have energy and if chasing this idea brings you curiosity, then yeah. I think the question is insanely good because the Valley and everything around us valorizes like pain tolerance and, you know, you read about the guys at Notion, they suffered for four years, went to Japan and suffered more, then now it's revenues have to go in. But, yeah, following your energy and thinking about all the signals that's my take.
00:04:52 · George, Pablo Srugo
[00:04:52] S0: I think it's a tier zero question. I would not listen to anything I'm saying this because I'm a nobody and still figuring this out. My stance on this is following your energy. And like, if you have energy and if chasing this idea brings you curiosity, then yeah. I think the question is insanely good because the Valley and everything around us valorizes like pain tolerance and, you know, you read about the guys at Notion, they suffered for four years, went to Japan and suffered more, then now it's revenues have to go in. But, yeah, following your energy and thinking about all the signals that's my take. [00:05:21] S1: I like the energy as a concept. I thought about that a lot myself. It's like, it carries through, like, even when you think about hours work, like, how all in are you? And it's like, how much time you're at the desk? Like, how much are you gonna count this? You're gonna count that? But it's really all about energy. Like where does your energy go? You wake up in the morning, what are you thinking about? At night, you're watching a movie, you zone out, you're zoning out to what? Like that's where your energy is going, that's what's pulling you.
00:05:21 · Pablo Srugo, George
[00:05:21] S1: I like the energy as a concept. I thought about that a lot myself. It's like, it carries through, like, even when you think about hours work, like, how all in are you? And it's like, how much time you're at the desk? Like, how much are you gonna count this? You're gonna count that? But it's really all about energy. Like where does your energy go? You wake up in the morning, what are you thinking about? At night, you're watching a movie, you zone out, you're zoning out to what? Like that's where your energy is going, that's what's pulling you. [00:05:41] S0: I I I will say that like today, it's so easy to build things. It's certainly easier than it was a year ago. And I think a lot of people jump around. I jump around quite a lot. I do think you have to like commit hardcore to a thing. I don't wanna say like how many months. Our stance was like at least six months to a year, like hardcore, obsessed, like crazy hours, sell it, code it. I do think there's, like, a specific amount of, like, sweat you have to put into it before you can build conviction of, oh my god. I'm losing my energy versus, oh, I'm just, like, you know, I'm just tired. [00:06:11] S1: Once you give the money back, are you in kind of this valley of despair or are you kinda like ready to go? Like, where are you at? Talking about energy, where are you at?
00:06:11 · Pablo Srugo, George
[00:06:11] S1: Once you give the money back, are you in kind of this valley of despair or are you kinda like ready to go? Like, where are you at? Talking about energy, where are you at? [00:06:18] S0: Despicable. Sitting on the floor at South Park Common seven days a week, like reading books, rethinking my life. Super miserable. I would not wish it was my worst enemy. I mean, it's kind of interesting, but also like quite miserable because I felt like time is running out to build something epic. And then especially with the ones around us and I felt like I'm gonna miss my window. What year was this? [00:06:39] S1: Like where are we at timeline wise? [00:06:40] S0: Summer fall twenty twenty four. [00:06:42] S1: Yeah. Okay. I did say it. There's already a lot of, like, AI native startups having built and kind of growing around you. [00:06:49] S0: Yeah. People are taking off. Right? I was miserable. But then I met my cofounder who is incredible and an amazing human and is, like, one of the main reasons why I even decided to go at it again. And then we did it, like, a new set of discovery, which I think is your question like. [00:07:02] S1: How'd you need your cofounder? That that's also a big one. [00:07:04] S0: Very lucky. I always strongly recommend South Park Commons. It's a community for founders slash engineers that people just wanna tinker. We'll introduced there. [00:07:13] S1: And he was like, was it kinda like you were technical, he was technical, like one of these kind of compliment situations?